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Green Web Frog K98 bayonet info please

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    Green Web Frog K98 bayonet info please

    Hallo,
    I found this Frog K98 bayonet in cordura green material.
    I kindly ask you for some information, because I have only seen this object in khaki color, while this Frog is green.
    Thank you in advance.

    Hani
    Attached Files

    #2
    Nice EARLY tropical frog. (Early versions are green, later ones khaki).
    SF Mike (photo: my rig)
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      1940 pattern olive green webbed frog. Nice one. Tan/brown webbing overtook olive in early 1941.
      Mark
      NZ
      Collector of Afrikakorps Uniforms & Fieldgear -
      http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=130267
      Mannequin Painting -
      http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=180061

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Kruger1933 View Post
        Hallo,
        I found this Frog K98 bayonet in cordura green material.
        I kindly ask you for some information, because I have only seen this object in khaki color, while this Frog is green.
        Thank you in advance.

        Hani
        FIRST and the MOST; it's not CORDURA ( cordura is syntetic fiber developed and introduced FAR later after II WW ). If you do not know english language well ( personaly I do not know it very well, as I'm not a native speaker ) or your net dictionery translates it very badly( IMO ) and it has not been fully understandable IMO ( at least not for me the no native, english speakers ) than please use old fashioned, book word dictioneries to write in correct way please.

        The item is THICK NATURAL viber webbing is typical for very early period of war , developed for usage in tropical area ( actualy, based on pre I WW , german experience of german central and low Africa colonies , where more tropica rain forests and savannah were the majorities ); in other words early, true DAK frog for bayonet ( made in late 1940 , early 1941, when were replaced by gree/brown/ tan examples ).

        Comment


          #5
          Leaving aside the linguistic technical terms, thanks to all. I am satisfied that the piece is good.

          Hani

          Comment


            #6
            Hi there,

            I wonder where you got these dates from. These bags did not exist before 1941/42 (see the relevant regulations and the information brochure on uniform surveys).

            The color has nothing to do with the time of manufacture but was dependent on the manufacturer. This bag was made by Otto Jähnke Berlin. The color used is typical for this company.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Sleepwalker View Post
              Hi there,

              I wonder where you got these dates from. These bags did not exist before 1941/42 (see the relevant regulations and the information brochure on uniform surveys).

              The color has nothing to do with the time of manufacture but was dependent on the manufacturer. This bag was made by Otto Jähnke Berlin. The color used is typical for this company.
              Now I wonder where did you get this info ? Please share the info with us.

              Most of bayonet frogs ( specialy early, green versions ) has NO markings , so were did you get ifo about maker ?

              The green ( with very specific shade of green ), thick wave bayonet frogs ( that how it calls in english - not some 'bags' ), were made in late 1940 and early 1941 , before Germany even landed in North Africa ( preparings to support italian forces which fought in north Africa and were loosing with british forces started well in 1940 ).

              The full production of web gear started well in 1941 with second pattern of equipment and were made in all posible color shades ( more adjusted to terrain specific ) - from lighter green, tan, to brown or mixed colors.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by anmarlodz View Post
                Now I wonder where did you get this info ? Please share the info with us.

                Most of bayonet frogs ( specialy early, green versions ) has NO markings , so were did you get ifo about maker ?

                The green ( with very specific shade of green ), thick wave bayonet frogs ( that how it calls in english - not some 'bags' ), were made in late 1940 and early 1941 , before Germany even landed in North Africa ( preparings to support italian forces which fought in north Africa and were loosing with british forces started well in 1940 ).

                The full production of web gear started well in 1941 with second pattern of equipment and were made in all posible color shades ( more adjusted to terrain specific ) - from lighter green, tan, to brown or mixed colors.

                Hi there,

                if you can correct texts so nicely, you can also tell us where this information should come from during the production periods of the frogs. Are there historical sources on this?

                But now something about the introduction of tropical clothing and equipment. As is well known, the DAK was used from February 1941.
                The assignment took place in 1941, however, relatively quickly and unprepared. So that one was not optimally prepared on the part of the equipment, clothing as well as paints and varnishes for the vehicles, tanks, etc. This was only changed in the following period.

                On pictures etc. from the very first phases of the Africa campaign you can see on pictures e.g. good thing that leather gear and frogs are worn. It can therefore be assumed that leather was worn in the first phase.

                In 1940 the pattern of a tropical uniform was already available, which was developed together with the Hambug Tropical Institute.
                This should first be tested in troops. There was already a lot of prepared clothing. What parts of it were exactly unknown today.

                From October / November 1940, however, the results rolled over such that intervention by German troops in tropical areas became necessary.

                From then on, the required uniforms were produced from the existing samples and all tangible materials.

                This was published in April and May 1941 in the information medium of the clothing industry.
                Due to the hasty introduction, the tropical uniform was only shown as provisional.
                This also included that leather was increasingly being replaced by woven material due to the climatic conditions.
                This also included the web carrying system, consisting of a Y-belt, frog and belt.

                Here is another important aspect: Not every piece of equipment or clothing has the same launch date. Uniforms (jackets and trousers) made in 1940 are known. Belts and Frogs, however, are not.

                The clothing and equipment certificates for the tropics also provide for the introduction of tropical clothing from 1941. There the color is given as "khaki", "olive" or "brown-olive".

                I think that from the beginning of 1941 the production of the vast majority of tropical clothing and equipment began.

                Khaki was no longer a fixed term. So the color varied from Hertseller to manufacturer. It was only important to produce appropriate quantities quickly. The colors are green, brown-olive to sand / yellow.

                The light blue summer clothing of the Luftwaffe, which was only introduced on a trial basis in small quantities, with the rather rare blue weaving equipment was introduced in January 1942.

                This equipment was not only reserved for the DAK but for all troops in tropical regions. These included the Balkans, Italy (south of the Naples - Foggia line), Greece, Crete and southern Russia.

                All information can be found in the respective regulations of the Wehrmacht and the German Air Force or the "UM".

                Comment


                  #9
                  I have a fairly large database of tropic frogs and a fairly large collection of original pieces.

                  It is therefore easy to distinguish manufacturers by the materials and processing used. There are sometimes clear differences.

                  There are frogs that bear the manufacturer's stamp.

                  Otto Jähnke Berlin stamped white and black.

                  The white color passes very easily. As a result, many no longer have any manufacturer identification.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                    #10
                    ....as well as 1940 dated first pattern webbed Y straps and belts. Next source is verifiable veteran returned souvenirs from Afrika. I have many webbed belt sets from Afrika - and as usual the majority of buckles are 1940 dated.
                    First pattern green webbed Y straps still attached to packs brought home by Kiwi troops? I have two sets still with packs. I have a contact with a clearly 1940 dated stamp. Production ceased in early 1941 and hybrid sets can be found with both green and tan webbing. Show us an olive green post 1940 set (belt, frog or all green webbed Y strap) to solidify your position on the subject, please. I'd be intrigued to see anything.
                    Respectfully
                    Mark
                    NZ
                    Last edited by NZMark; 01-04-2020, 04:35 PM.
                    Collector of Afrikakorps Uniforms & Fieldgear -
                    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=130267
                    Mannequin Painting -
                    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=180061

                    Comment


                      #11
                      please show us any 1940 marked Strap, buckle or belt...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I believe it was you who stated these were made post 1941, so it's actually up to you to produce evidence to quantify your statement, not for me to provide photos of items which have been seen before and widely known by collectors of tropical webbed equipment.
                        Mark
                        NZ
                        Collector of Afrikakorps Uniforms & Fieldgear -
                        http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=130267
                        Mannequin Painting -
                        http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=180061

                        Comment


                          #13
                          @ frogmaster sleepwalker: may you also indentify mine? Of course not the leather one. This one is marked TIWO 1941. I appreciate much in advance. Respect to your state of knowledge
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                            #14
                            OK -
                            Here's a couple of shots. Some of my loose belt sets. The belt's buckles are generally GB 1940's. Enough guys here have them to know what they're looking at and a quick search will yield a load of photos. If you really need a photo of one with a date stamp, I'll provide it.
                            Here's two of my 1940 green webbed Y's. I have another all green set but they're packed away in storage.
                            The last photo is of the date stamp on a set of all green webbed Y's in a friend's collection who generously has allowed me to show this. Clearly a '40' stamp.
                            So, Sleepwalker, Please show us a post 1941 dated olive green belt, frog or all green set of webbed Y straps?
                            Nigromontanus - some lovely webbed frogs there (and the camouflaged leather example is wonderful!) The olive green is a 1940 example, the blue is a less common Luftwaffe version (they also produced a blue webbed Y strap set) while the other webbed frogs are post 1941 examples - I read 1942 on the stamped (tan/brown) example. The RB# frog can be no earlier than late 1942.
                            Regards,
                            Mark
                            NZ
                            Attached Files
                            Last edited by NZMark; 01-12-2020, 08:08 PM.
                            Collector of Afrikakorps Uniforms & Fieldgear -
                            http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=130267
                            Mannequin Painting -
                            http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=180061

                            Comment


                              #15
                              @NZMark: thank you for your comment. As to your discussion, I post a photo with 4 1942 dated belts (and an unidentifiable blue one), which shows also green ones dated 1942. By the way, I tried hard, but I cannot read 40 on the stamp you have shown. As much as I have gathered, at this time the year was always written in full, thus 1940 and not just 40.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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