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    Bergfuhrer arm sign

    Hello guys!

    What your opinion on originality?

    Thanks
    Attached Files
    You can see my collection:
    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=678845
    http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=679025

    #2
    I have my doubts that these badges were ever made or awarded. The only photograph I've ever seen of a Waffen-SS Bergführer was wearing the Heer version of the badge.

    What are the dimensions? In reality, the Waffen-SS version was intended as a breast badge, like the Heer/Polizei etc Bergführer badges, so it should be smaller than the Waffen-SS Gebirgsjäger arm badge.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Basil View Post
      I have my doubts that these badges were ever made or awarded. The only photograph I've ever seen of a Waffen-SS Bergführer was wearing the Heer version of the badge.

      What are the dimensions? In reality, the Waffen-SS version was intended as a breast badge, like the Heer/Polizei etc Bergführer badges, so it should be smaller than the Waffen-SS Gebirgsjäger arm badge.
      The size on height of 6 cm (2.4 inch) and 4.7 cm (1.9 inch) on width
      Rewardings were and carried. You are right that it was assumed as option for the chest sign
      You can see my collection:
      http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=678845
      http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=679025

      Comment


        #4
        It is one of the few photos where it is visible that it was carried on a breast
        Attached Files
        You can see my collection:
        http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=678845
        http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=679025

        Comment


          #5
          Hi,

          for comparison, here is the model proposed last December 2018 on Thies 65.

          Indeed there is no confirmation that originals were produced, but we can't deny the quality of the Thies patch...

          See You

          Vince
          Attached Files

          Comment


            #6
            Of course they existet. And the Badge from Thies is a fine original one.
            Here is one of the very few SS Award Documents for a SS HBF. And the Armbatch to this Doc exists as well.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by AntiqueWW2; 07-25-2019, 06:07 AM.
            WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

            Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by AntiqueWW2 View Post
              Of course they existet. And the Badge from Thies is a fine original one.
              Here is one of the very few SS Award Documents for a SS HBF. And the Armbatch to this Doc exists as well.

              Well, that's interesting, because the Waffen-SS Bergführer badge wasn't introduced until October 1944, some time after that award document was dated so the likelihood is that that document relates to the award of a Heer Bergführer badge to a member of the Waffen-SS.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Novosibirsk View Post
                It is one of the few photos where it is visible that it was carried on a breast
                Very interesting picture! I've never seen that before.

                Comment


                  #9
                  He got both of them. He was logic awarded with the regular HBF Badge, as you wrote correct the SS Cloth Badge was only introduced in 1944, not in October, dont know where you get that Date from, it was introduced in March, and each Bergfuhrer did the regular Heeres Bergfuhrer Training, there was no different Bergfuhrer School for Waffen SS. But in his Estate both Badges exists, regular HBF and SS Cloth Badge. And i know several other Groups with that Badge as well. Short, it exist 100% no doubt there.


                  QUOTE=Basil;8499580]Well, that's interesting, because the Waffen-SS Bergführer badge wasn't introduced until October 1944, some time after that award document was dated so the likelihood is that that document relates to the award of a Heer Bergführer badge to a member of the Waffen-SS.[/QUOTE]
                  WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                  Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by AntiqueWW2 View Post
                    as you wrote correct the SS Cloth Badge was only introduced in 1944, not in October, dont know where you get that Date from, it was introduced in March, and each Bergfuhrer did the regular Heeres Bergfuhrer Training, there was no different Bergfuhrer School for Waffen SS.
                    'Uniforms, Organisation and History of the Waffen-SS Vol. 1' by Bender and Taylor. Most of their uniform/insignia information was based on the Verordnungsblatt der Waffen-SS so I would be pretty confident in the date. The date of 1 October 1944 is also cited in Angolia's 'Cloth Insignia of the SS'. Can you cite a source for the March 1944 introduction of the Waffen-SS Bergführer Abzeichen?

                    Looking at the very interesting picture posted by Novosibirsk, it is clearly different to the various examples of embroidered patch I've seen over the years and I wonder whether it is an enamelled badge, like the other branch Bergführer Abzeichen which are well known.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Angolia is the last Source i would take to proof anything I more trust facts, and i own a Group from a SS HBF who got awarded with the Badge in April 1944. There was no metal SS HBF Badge, only the Cloth Version. What was only Himmlers wish to have a Counter Badge for the original Heer Badge. But the Training was always done by Heer/Wehrmacht, the SS never had a seperate Training School or anything like that.

                      Originally posted by Basil View Post
                      'Uniforms, Organisation and History of the Waffen-SS Vol. 1' by Bender and Taylor. Most of their uniform/insignia information was based on the Verordnungsblatt der Waffen-SS so I would be pretty confident in the date. The date of 1 October 1944 is also cited in Angolia's 'Cloth Insignia of the SS'. Can you cite a source for the March 1944 introduction of the Waffen-SS Bergführer Abzeichen?

                      Looking at the very interesting picture posted by Novosibirsk, it is clearly different to the various examples of embroidered patch I've seen over the years and I wonder whether it is an enamelled badge, like the other branch Bergführer Abzeichen which are well known.
                      WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                      Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by AntiqueWW2 View Post
                        What was only Himmlers wish to have a Counter Badge for the original Heer Badge.
                        And you know this how? Did you hold a seance?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Basil View Post
                          And you know this how? Did you hold a seance?
                          C'mon, that was an unnecessary comment. AntiqueWW2 is probably the best go-to experts on this subject on this forum so I would assume he's got his facts straight when it comes to these badges.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            No, but you learn in 30 Years one or two Things about that when you collect it. And since i had the pleassuer to meet countless Vets, i simple know. For that i dont need some crap Books....


                            Originally posted by Basil View Post
                            And you know this how? Did you hold a seance?
                            WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                            Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Basil View Post
                              The only photograph I've ever seen of a Waffen-SS Bergführer was wearing the Heer version of the badge.
                              Hello! Can you show this photo? - it would be very interesting to see. There were about 40 SS-bergfuehrer, so every photo will be a sensation. I know only two photos of SS BF- first of bad quality (posted above), second in Angolia's book. But on the photo in Angolia's book - bergfuehrer wears not heer badge, like it is said in the description of the photo, but civil DAV Ski- u. Bergfuehrer badge.
                              Attached Files

                              Comment

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