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A side-by-side comparison - NS and hkp M42 SS helmets

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    A side-by-side comparison - NS and hkp M42 SS helmets

    Hello all,
    Always been puzzled about the theory that “champagne” decals were painted and not decals as “non-controversial” ones.
    I stopped collecting some years ago and sold most of my collection but still have few ones (and still buy some when I find something that I like and want to start a fight with my beloved wife).
    Still have few SS ones including a NS and Hkp SS. Some I kept some because I liked them and kept some (like this NS and this HKP) because of uncertainties about originality.
    I always took our hobby just... as a hobby and having collected for forty years I certainly burned my fingers many times BUT tried to never fool others reselling helmets that I became unhappy with.

    Now what we have here.

    1NS and 1 hkp mod. 42 SS helmet.

    The two helmets have been in my collection for something like 20 years and I dont mean to promote any sales and even less promote the legitimacy of the (in)famous “champagne ” pattern.

    Description

    A NS size 64 batch 3272 and a hkp size 64 batch 3158.. The NS has a Litzmanstad 1943 dated liner. The hkp impossible to say since the liner is so tight that i could not read. HKP chinstrap is marked BDR41 and the NS one is unmarked.

    Provenance

    No vets or exotic stories here. The NS on came from the US, auctioned by AAG in 1993. The hkp came from a large collection in Italy in 2003 apparently bought from a reputable Nordic collector whose name for obvious reasons will not disclose (for what it is worth anyway).

    Decals comparison

    The width of the shield on both helmets is 3.54 cm.
    The width of the right rune of both helmets is 0.58 cm.
    The lenght of the left rune on both helmets is 1.54 cm.
    The black border thickness of the decals is 0.2 cm on both.

    Conclusion

    First, the dimensions of the decals on both helmets are exactly the same.
    Second, the close inspection using a 10x jeweller lens confirms at least to my eyes that the two have the same look and consistency as decals that I found on original helmets (at hand I “only” had the 3 Qs M40 and the EFM42).
    The two decals compared side by have exactly the same size and don't look painted to me.

    Again, I don't want to say that Champagne runes are necessarily original but:

    A) they were not painted
    B) the two that I have show exactly the same dimensions (also, if they were painted, would an artist be such an artist to paint two decals having exactly the same dimensions?)

    The two helmets now will go straight back in a box in the cellar but must confess that, being quite masochistich, that they have a wonderful look even if almost certainly fake....

    Enjoy

    Paolo
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Paolo; 11-08-2019, 08:53 AM.

    #2
    it would be nice to see both decals in close-up side by side.
    Collecting German WW2 helmets in the 21st century.
    www.germanhelmetvault.com

    Comment


      #3
      Close ups

      Here are the close ups
      Attached Files

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you Paolo , they do indeed look very similar which would make sense if the same template was used to paint them (or decal) and of course it is also not the only nail that was hammered in the coffin of the CR runes.

        That's just the first thing that popped up in my mind.

        Is it possible to get a clearer photo of the LEFT one you posted , that photo is a bit fuzzy.
        Last edited by Schwerpunkt; 11-08-2019, 03:21 PM. Reason: said right but mean left
        Collecting German WW2 helmets in the 21st century.
        www.germanhelmetvault.com

        Comment


          #5
          Also I must add that for me your examples are not CR rune fakes.
          They have a more sharper break that forms a corner and the runes sit slightly under that break (a bit like Q runes do).

          These in my opinion are ET style fake decals.
          Collecting German WW2 helmets in the 21st century.
          www.germanhelmetvault.com

          Comment


            #6
            I tend to agree with Frank.
            these could be decals.

            Since templates were used for the CH ones we assume they wouldn't have worked for more than 2 or maybe 3 examples. a new one would have been done.

            that's why most of the time with CH you do see some minor differences comparing to each other and they are rarely similar.

            Comment


              #7
              Close up

              Here is the close up and you raised a good point
              I noted that too
              As to ET resemblance I quite agree albeit in the CH tutorial posted by DougB there were few in which the square break was not present
              So these ones If fake seem to be very good ones to me but given ET were ever used on NS and hkp then ....

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Paolo View Post
                Here is the close up and you raised a good point
                I noted that too
                As to ET resemblance I quite agree albeit in the CH tutorial posted by DougB there were few in which the square break was not present
                So these ones If fake seem to be very good ones to me but given ET were ever used on NS and hkp then ....
                Yes there's a lot of differences between champagne runes which was one of its problems. Some had smoother breaks.
                You can see several examples here :
                https://germanhelmetvault.com/fake-c...rune-ss-decal/
                Collecting German WW2 helmets in the 21st century.
                www.germanhelmetvault.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  I would like to see better, and larger, close-ups. So far to me they look like decals.
                  Willi

                  Preußens Gloria!

                  sigpic

                  Sapere aude - "Dare to know! Have the courage to use your own intelligence!" - Immanuel Kant

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post
                    I would like to see better, and larger, close-ups. So far to me they look like decals.
                    I dont manage to post pics anymore.
                    This is what appears when I try...

                    “Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.
                    If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.”

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Schwerpunkt View Post
                      Also I must add that for me your examples are not CR rune fakes.
                      They have a more sharper break that forms a corner and the runes sit slightly under that break (a bit like Q runes do).

                      These in my opinion are ET style fake decals.
                      I believe you assessment is correct. They are decals. High quality fake. They do not seem to be Wartime ET decals.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Paolo View Post
                        I dont manage to post pics anymore.
                        This is what appears when I try...

                        “Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.
                        If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.”
                        Your pictures are probably to big

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have only owned one CR decaled helmet in my life, I bought it at the SOS many years ago. All of the biggest collectors and names in helmets were around my table. At that time that particular decal I see no way how it could have been painted, I am certain it was a decal. I do not buy them and will not sell them but my "suspicion" is some are original. I do also feel the majority out there are fake and I have seen painted on ones to compare. I would actually love to have a fake CR rune decaled helmet as a study piece if any one wants to sell one as a fake.
                          www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                          sigpic

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by BobI View Post
                            I have only owned one CR decaled helmet in my life, I bought it at the SOS many years ago. All of the biggest collectors and names in helmets were around my table. At that time that particular decal I see no way how it could have been painted, I am certain it was a decal. I do not buy them and will not sell them but my "suspicion" is some are original. I do also feel the majority out there are fake and I have seen painted on ones to compare. I would actually love to have a fake CR rune decaled helmet as a study piece if any one wants to sell one as a fake.
                            Exactly, correct Bob !

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BobI View Post
                              I have only owned one CR decaled helmet in my life, I bought it at the SOS many years ago. All of the biggest collectors and names in helmets were around my table. At that time that particular decal I see no way how it could have been painted, I am certain it was a decal. I do not buy them and will not sell them but my "suspicion" is some are original. I do also feel the majority out there are fake and I have seen painted on ones to compare. I would actually love to have a fake CR rune decaled helmet as a study piece if any one wants to sell one as a fake.
                              Hello Bob , there is just no correlation between the CR shields and any maker or lot numbers. So whether they are decals or paint for me is not an issue.
                              Also even if we give the CR runes Pocher status , so that we consider it a reissue decal I have not seen any CR runes applied on a reissue helmet.
                              It is truly a dead and buried decal for more reasons than one.
                              Collecting German WW2 helmets in the 21st century.
                              www.germanhelmetvault.com

                              Comment

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