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    Unknown General's collar tabs

    Hi Guys,

    I have these very unusual tabs which are mixed bullion and celleon and on a strange backing colour which is a kind of grey/ very light brown. Looking at materials and construction I have no doubt at all these are period.

    They have certainly been worn and removed from a tunic and later flattened out for whatever reason but I will refold them in due course along the clear original lines.

    Does any one have any idea what these may be please? The best I could come up with is pre 42 Polizei General but that would be on a pure SS light grey??

    Any help much appreciated!!!

    Many thanks

    Patrick
    Attached Files
    Best regards, Patrick

    "Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel

    #2
    The only other thing I could guess is possibly privately commissioned tropical tabs- unofficial of course but who is going to tell a General off for not wearing red tabs?
    Attached Files
    Best regards, Patrick

    "Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel

    Comment


      #3
      Nothing Tropical here That is Wehrmachtsbeamter General of War Administration without the Green Piping what would be added when they are finish.

      Here is a Picture....
      Attached Files
      Last edited by AntiqueWW2; 10-02-2019, 12:33 PM.
      WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

      Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

      Comment


        #4
        Hi Robert,

        Thanks, these tabs were worn without any piping- they have been taken off a tunic. They would in that case be Verwaltungspolizei General not army admin.

        Best

        Patrick
        Best regards, Patrick

        "Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel

        Comment


          #5
          Patrick......what was worn without Piping...here take a look for yourself.....of course they where worn with Piping....Green Piping. Yours can only be one of them, or simple some Sample what someone did for whatever Reason. There sure never was any General Tabs with tropical backing.



          Originally posted by Patrick W View Post
          Hi Robert,

          Thanks, these tabs were worn without any piping- they have been taken off a tunic. They would in that case be Verwaltungspolizei General not army admin.

          Best

          Patrick
          Attached Files
          WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

          Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

          Comment


            #6
            I agree they would have to be for a general-ranked police administration official if these are indeed light-grey unpiped patches... But - although colours can be very deceiving if captured via digital photography and displayed on a computer screen - to me, they don't look light grey but beige or khaki, in which case they are a complete riddle.

            By the way, the above chart with the rainbow of Larisch-embroidered collar patches was made by me. See here for its original appearance with the text that goes with it:

            http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/f24/ge...51/#post948251

            Comment


              #7
              Where you see Police Admin Tabs???? I talk about the Tabs in the Middle, and they are WH Admin ( Verwaltungsbeamte im Generalsrang) light Gray with green Piping.



              Originally posted by HPL2008 View Post
              I agree they would have to be for a general-ranked police administration official if these are indeed light-grey unpiped patches... But - although colours can be very deceiving if captured via digital photography and displayed on a computer screen - to me, they don't look light grey but beige or khaki, in which case they are a complete riddle.

              By the way, the above chart with the rainbow of Larisch-embroidered collar patches was made by me. See here for its original appearance with the text that goes with it:

              http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/f24/ge...51/#post948251
              WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

              Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

              Comment


                #8
                Rob- look at the tab below the one you are talking about- plain grey- no piping- that is what he and I are both referring to.

                thanks and the colour is reflected correctly in the pictures- it is not a pure grey but a beige colour
                Best regards, Patrick

                "Rein muss er" und wenn wir beide weinen! - Personal inscription of Oblt Klaus Faber, JV44 Papagei Staffel

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by AntiqueWW2 View Post
                  Where you see Police Admin Tabs????
                  Bottom row center: Polizeiverwaltungsbeamte im Generalsrang.

                  I know what's on that chart. As I said, I made it.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    And i don't talk about that one, i talk about the green Piped one i posted the Picture. And this one is 100% WH Admin Generals Rank.

                    That one without is of course Pol. Verwaltung. That one what Patrick posted can be both, WH Admin or Police, but to me they look anyway too much khaki. One Thing is sure, there was no General in the German Army who would wear khaki Tabs. There where a lot Officers who took it not that serious with the Regulations, but to change the Color....no.

                    Originally posted by HPL2008 View Post
                    Bottom row center: Polizeiverwaltungsbeamte im Generalsrang.

                    I know what's on that chart. As I said, I made it.
                    WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                    Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                    Comment


                      #11

                      “there was no General in the German Army who would wear khaki Tabs.”

                      Goodness me. Such absolutism and utter ‘certainty’ spoken about a period, 75 years ago, that none of us experienced or were alive during about a regulation nuance that barely had its ink dry before the SHTF in Germany.

                      With respect, a post-war drawn colorful ‘chart’ (nice reference chart by the way HPL2008!) of what was proposed in the regulation is proof of nothing. If I’m not way off base I believe the regulation was worded “Generals of Specialist Careers” and, at the time of publication there was a list of accepted “specialist” career Generals with articulated waffenfarb. That said, between April/May of ‘44 and May ‘45 those regulations, as with all regulations throughout the war, just may have ‘evolved’ designating other “specialist” careers and waffenfarbs. Perhaps you’re stating that if it wasn’t written down for the benefit of 21st century collectors to reference, it never happened? Then again, I recall a member here having the phrase under his name going something like “They never did that ~ yes they did.”

                      Digital photography and/or CRT color variations aside, anyone can see these are brown(ish)/khaki badgecloth as Patrick describes them. In my opinion, his guess that these were unofficial tropical tabs, seems the most reasonable and rational rather than trying to convince folks (who aren’t color blind) that brownish/khaki is actually grey just because that’s the ‘closest’ unpiped match on the ‘officially accepted’ color chart.

                      I recall a pair of WW1 Generalmajor's shoulder boards for the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg­-Schwerin that I own having a 'grey' base material versus red underlay that would have matched the General’s tunic. Clearly, this was what we might term, these days, "subdued" insignia offering less of a target for snipers to decapitate leadership identified wearing bright red insignia. Patrick’s hypothesis dovetails with this nicely.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Let me throw in another possibilty:

                        Could they be East German? Subdued collar patches for NVA generals definitely existed, although I admit that their badgecloth material was normally of a darker shade of brown.

                        For examples, see: http://themarshalsbaton.com/DDR%20Generals.htm
                        Last edited by HPL2008; 10-04-2019, 10:03 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          So much Text is always great. Show me one single period Picture with a General wearing this Tabs, complete Bull....! They did a lot, all kind of Stuff, but no German General would ever wear these Tabs. Hypothesis is always nice, i read them a lot everywhere. But that count zero, all what counts is a period Picture in wear. I haven't seen one in 35 Years....and so for me that is nothing more then I HAVE A DREAM....would be nice....i bring up some hypothesis and turn Crap into rare real Stuff, year right

                          Originally posted by Rick C View Post

                          “there was no General in the German Army who would wear khaki Tabs.”

                          Goodness me. Such absolutism and utter ‘certainty’ spoken about a period, 75 years ago, that none of us experienced or were alive during about a regulation nuance that barely had its ink dry before the SHTF in Germany.

                          With respect, a post-war drawn colorful ‘chart’ (nice reference chart by the way HPL2008!) of what was proposed in the regulation is proof of nothing. If I’m not way off base I believe the regulation was worded “Generals of Specialist Careers” and, at the time of publication there was a list of accepted “specialist” career Generals with articulated waffenfarb. That said, between April/May of ‘44 and May ‘45 those regulations, as with all regulations throughout the war, just may have ‘evolved’ designating other “specialist” careers and waffenfarbs. Perhaps you’re stating that if it wasn’t written down for the benefit of 21st century collectors to reference, it never happened? Then again, I recall a member here having the phrase under his name going something like “They never did that ~ yes they did.”

                          Digital photography and/or CRT color variations aside, anyone can see these are brown(ish)/khaki badgecloth as Patrick describes them. In my opinion, his guess that these were unofficial tropical tabs, seems the most reasonable and rational rather than trying to convince folks (who aren’t color blind) that brownish/khaki is actually grey just because that’s the ‘closest’ unpiped match on the ‘officially accepted’ color chart.

                          I recall a pair of WW1 Generalmajor's shoulder boards for the Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg­-Schwerin that I own having a 'grey' base material versus red underlay that would have matched the General’s tunic. Clearly, this was what we might term, these days, "subdued" insignia offering less of a target for snipers to decapitate leadership identified wearing bright red insignia. Patrick’s hypothesis dovetails with this nicely.

                          WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                          Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Weren't you one of the gents saying the same thing about pointy stemmed SS General's tabs...?

                            Anyone ever tell you that your a very strident individual?

                            Anyway, you must be right of course. They're just well made fakes if you haven't seen them in your 35 years...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Never say anything about SS General Tabs.......

                              I don't care what anyone say about me...

                              And hypothesis about everything is very nice, just not very helpfull. This is not the i wish it would be Hobby rather more the until proofen real its Crap Hobby. So please again, just one Picture of them in Wear.......all i am asking for

                              Originally posted by Rick C View Post
                              Weren't you one of the gents saying the same thing about pointy stemmed SS General's tabs...?

                              Anyone ever tell you that your a very strident individual?

                              Anyway, you must be right of course. They're just well made fakes if you haven't seen them in your 35 years...
                              WWW.EDELWEISS-ANTIQUES.COM

                              Specialized in Uniforms, Mountain Troops and Heeresbergfuhrer

                              Comment

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