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Heer 1st pattern Sumpftarn smock

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    #16
    Has anybody seen smocks in this type of material? What counts in the end for me is if this is an original wartime smock or not? If not I will contact the dealer.

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      #17
      Has anybody seen smocks in this type of material? What counts in the end for me is if this is an original wartime smock or not? If not I will contact the dealer.

      Comment


        #18
        Here's some more pictures that can help with the assessment of said garment. The Sumpftarn is printed on a rayon blend which is thin but typical for this kind of camouflage garments from this era. It was used for a wide variety of garments such as parkas, camouflage smocks but also paratrooper smocks. The colours on the smock are a bit bland but that is probably to do that it's used and possibly sun bleached. I don't think it's a post war pattern. It's incredible that the third reich sent its soldiers into battle wearing paper thin jackets. The colours and details are hard to see on the pictures due to the WAF image generator; in hand its a typical piece with the right amount of natural aging you'd suspect.

        Best Regards

        Frederik

        overzicht_27785.jpg overzicht_27778.jpg overzicht_27781.jpg overzicht_27782.jpg overzicht_27783.jpg

        overzicht_27776.jpg overzicht_27788.jpg
        Attached Files

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          #19
          Originally posted by 4th division View Post
          It's incredible that the third reich sent its soldiers into battle wearing paper thin jackets. The colours and details are hard to see on the pictures due to the WAF image generator; in hand its a typical piece with the right amount of natural aging you'd suspect.
          The early WH smocks were thick and prepared for multiseason used ( specialy if one taken in consideration than early one were double sided with one side for warm months and other side for winter period ), but later one IMO, supposed to be only one season used ( and new one supposed to be delivered in new season ). So late war were designed in way that you don't need to clean it or repairs ( having in mind that were very thin and easy to damage you simply get rid of it when damaged badly ).
          Still looking for LARGE SIZE M43 gabardine jacket and m43 gabardine cap ... maybe some day I will find it best regards Marcin

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            #20
            Originally posted by 4th division View Post
            Here's some more pictures that can help with the assessment of said garment. The Sumpftarn is printed on a rayon blend which is thin but typical for this kind of camouflage garments from this era. It was used for a wide variety of garments such as parkas, camouflage smocks but also paratrooper smocks. The colours on the smock are a bit bland but that is probably to do that it's used and possibly sun bleached. I don't think it's a post war pattern. It's incredible that the third reich sent its soldiers into battle wearing paper thin jackets. The colours and details are hard to see on the pictures due to the WAF image generator; in hand its a typical piece with the right amount of natural aging you'd suspect.

            Best Regards

            Frederik

            overzicht_27785.jpg overzicht_27778.jpg overzicht_27781.jpg overzicht_27782.jpg overzicht_27783.jpg

            overzicht_27776.jpg overzicht_27788.jpg
            Thanks for adding some better photos Fred.

            Those smocks were so thin because they were worn over the feldbluse.

            The colors are indeed different in real. On the pictures they look more whitish.



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              #21
              To me it's an original smock, but not first pattern as mentioned by the thread starter.
              The first pattern army smocks were produced in the army’s splinter camouflage pattern and were without an integral hood.
              The second pattern army smocks came in the army’s swamp/marsh, (tan/water), camouflage pattern and included an integral hood large enough to accommodate a helmet.
              The smocks were designed to fit over the standard service uniform and as a result were cut quite large. Later war production camouflage smocks discontinued use of the integral hood due to fabric shortages and as Anmarlodz stated, thin and only used for one season.

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                #22
                IMO this one is legit. Construction looks good to me.
                It’s maybe an atypical pattern (Horizontal rain strikes) or “uncommon” material (Rayon blend) without the whitish backing. It has the right patina and use when you have it in hand.
                The camo pattern is not BGS IMO. It appears so because of the colors, but in real they are darker (brownish).

                I trust Fred from FJM44. I don’t think he is putting something for sale and definitely not as reference material on his site when he is not 100% sure of what he has. I know everybody will Have a laugh with the “good trusted seller or respectable dealer” or something like that, but That’s my impression about him. Always nice stuff and nit at too crazy prices.
                If it turns out to be a fake I guess it will be arranged.

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                  #23
                  Jan, the additional photos certainly help. I see natural wear and damage, as well as more natural colors. As I no longer collect camo uniforms, I haven't kept up with the more recent publications coming out of Europe. While I have never seen the horizontal rain pattern, or a hoodless water pattern smock, I defer to the others.

                  I met Fred in Europe, have viewed his offerings, and folks I trust completely have spoken highly of him. So, I concur with your view of his character and knowledge.
                  ​​​​​​
                  At the end of the day the decision rests with you.
                  Willi

                  Preußens Gloria!

                  sigpic

                  Sapere aude

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post
                    Jan, the additional photos certainly help. I see natural wear and damage, as well as more natural colors. As I longer collect camo uniforms, I haven't kept up with the more recent publications coming out of Europe. While I have never seen the horizontal rain pattern, or a hoodless water pattern smock, I defer to the others.

                    I have met Fred in Europe, have viewed his offerings, and folks I trust completely have spoken highly of him. So, I concur with your view of his character and knowledge.
                    ​​​​​​
                    At the end of the day the decision rests with you.
                    Thanks Willi.
                    I collect nearly 25 years. I’m far from a camo specialist. I have a diverse collection (German, Belgian, US, British and Canadian). The reason for that is that I’m starting my private museum. The theme will be Fall Gelb ( Belgium in May 1940) , the Normandy battles and following liberation of Belgium.
                    For certain items I have to rely on the knowledge Of certain specialists in that particular domain. It’s impossible to know everything. I do have a relatively broad All round knowledge, but it ends somewhere.

                    What is your call about this smock Willi?

                    There are several dealers/ persons I would never buy from.

                    Normally I don’t buy any item with a minor red flag.

                    My next buy will be a nice used splinter LW FD smock And looking for a nice used SS M44 Erbsentarn pair of trousers too.

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                      #25
                      Here another one......
                      https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...ght=camo+smock

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by nippo View Post
                        Yes, but it isn’t the same. Rainmarks are vertical and eyelets for drawstring are different.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by nippo View Post
                          This one is completely diffreent, than the theread strater and one shown above by Fredrik.
                          Still looking for LARGE SIZE M43 gabardine jacket and m43 gabardine cap ... maybe some day I will find it best regards Marcin

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Sorry , I just wanted to publish another second type camo smock without the hood

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by nippo View Post
                              Sorry , I just wanted to publish another second type camo smock without the hood
                              No worries, I appreciate all help.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Looks more like this in real
                                Attached Files

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