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    #16
    swastika & wreath banner sizes ???

    Originally posted by fredswiss View Post
    ...
    last one shown [p#14] may well be a podium banner
    but it appears to be considerably smaller than the
    one at the beginning of this thread and the last one
    shown also does not appear to have the gold bullion
    fringe. The one shown in Johnson's War Booty book
    appears to be too large to be a podium banner.....
    Just my opinion.
    Hello fredswiss:
    This thread recap of swastika & wreath banners.
    1. Post #1 banner, size not listed, photo posted *.
    2. Post #7 banner, size 195x220cm, HHA#?, no photo.
    3. Post #10 banner, size 4'2"Lx4'H (~127x122cm), *.
    4. Post #12 banner, size not listed, SA RZM tag, *.
    5. Post #14 banner, 48"x48" (~122cm sq.), *.

    OFW
    PS/ Found elsewhere online another example at ...
    http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/108so1.html
    and also this thread post #1 banner, listed as:
    "AF019 Large tapestry attributed to the Reichskanzlei"
    http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=650
    "Heavy tapestry measures 2.05 x 1.95 meters (approximately
    5 x 5.5 feet), single sided with design woven into a heavy rug-
    like fabric, intended as a wall adornment, the upper edge has
    a sleeve to accommodate the hanging rod, located on a white
    circular field, the static black swastika is bordered in gold, the
    central circle is itself encircled by a ring of golden oakleaves, the
    lower section of the tapestry is itself bordered in sections of gold.
    black and white, the lower edge of the tapestry with golden fringe,
    a section of the fringe approximately 9cm in length is damaged,
    otherwise the tapestry is in very good condition with no holes or
    spots but with some fraying to the upper rear corners...", USD $4350
    So banner #1 is somewhat larger than post #14 banner. OFW
    (below) Post #1 banner from elsewhere online site...
    Attached Files
    Last edited by oldflagswanted; 12-08-2012, 05:11 PM.
    sigpic
    .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

    Comment


      #17
      recap update ...

      Originally posted by Shawn Bern View Post
      ...HH had one at auction for 7,500 Euros last auction
      and it didnt sell, not for authenticity issues, just that
      7,500 Euros is $9,752.00 and doesn't include the 23%
      commission and shipping charges they levy on you ...
      Post #7 = Post #12, same banner with SA RZM tag.
      Updated thread recap of swastika & wreath banners.
      1. Post #1 & 16 banner, size
      2.05x1.95 m, photo posted *.
      2. Post #7 banner, size 195x220cm, HHA#5231, *.
      3. Post #10 banner, size 4'2"Lx4'H (~127x122cm), *.
      4. Post #12 banner, same banner as #7, SA RZM tag, * .
      5. Post #14 banner, 48"x48" (~122cm sq.), *.

      OFW
      (below) HHA Lot #5231, from 22 Oct 2012:
      "DRITTES REICH ZEITGESCHICHTE - A Reich Chancellery tapestry"
      "From the New Reich´s Chancellery in Berlin, heavy cotton
      construction, some soiling. Red field, with black-white border
      and gold edging. In centre, white disk with black swastika
      with gold trim, surrounded by gold embroidered oak leaf
      wreath. Finished with gold fringe. Reverse covered in red
      cotton with tag embroidered "RZM NSDAP der Obergebietsführer
      SA". Upper edge with broad hem, inside a sleeve for wall
      hanging rod. Size 195 x 220 cm. See: Lt. Col. Thomas N. Johnson
      "World War II German War Booty" Columbia 1982, p. 56 ff. with
      illustration of an identical piece from war souvenirs of American
      Sgt. Ed. Lukow with his description of Reich´s Chancellery "...
      when I entered one of the rooms, there were two large swastika
      /gold oakleaf tapestries still hanging on one wall with a huge
      portrait of Fieldmarshall von Hindenburg between them...".
      Estimated Price: €7,500 - €9,000
      Did not sell
      Attached Files
      Last edited by oldflagswanted; 12-08-2012, 06:59 PM.
      sigpic
      .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

      Comment


        #18
        Further List Update...

        Updated thread recap of swastika & wreath banners.
        1. Post #01 & 16 banner, size
        2.05x1.95 m, online USA, *.
        2. Post #07 banner, size 195x220cm, HHA#5231, *.
        3. Post #10 banner, size 4'2"Lx4'H (~127x122cm), *.
        4. Post #12 banner, same banner as #7, SA RZM tag, * .
        5. Post #14 banner, 48"x48" (~122cm sq.), online USA, *.

        6. Post #09 banner, size unk?, Russia FSB Museum, *.
        7. Post #18 banner, size not listed, online USA, *.
        Total number of photo confirmed (*) examples = 6 (six banners)
        Vet cited numbers=6 quantity (Post #10), =2 quantity (Post #13 & 17).
        OFW
        (below) Banner List #7 (post #18 reference), as seen online...
        Last edited by oldflagswanted; 12-09-2012, 02:56 AM.
        sigpic
        .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

        Comment


          #19
          List #8, the 7th example ???

          Updated thread recap of swastika & wreath banners.
          1. Post #01 & 16 banner, size
          2.05x1.95 m, online USA, *.
          2. Post #07 banner, size 195x220cm, HHA#5231(2012), *.
          3. Post #10 banner, size 4'2"Lx4'H (~127x122cm), *.
          4. Post #12 banner, same banner as #7, SA RZM tag, * .
          5. Post #14 banner, 48"x48" (~122cm sq.), online USA, *.

          6. Post #09 banner, size unk?, Russia FSB Museum, *.
          7. Post #18 banner, size not listed, online USA, *.
          8. Post #19 banner, size 160x125cm, HHA#7484(2005), *.
          Total number of photo confirmed (*) examples = 7 (seven banners)
          Vet cited numbers=6 quantity (Post #10), =2 quantity (Post #13 & 17).
          OFW
          (below) Banner List #8 (post #19 reference), as seen online...
          HHA Lot Nr.7484 (auction #48) "Adolf Hitler - Balustradenbehang
          aus der Neuen Reichskanzlei in Berlin, in schwerer Baumwoll-
          Ausführung. Rotes Feld, schwarz-weiße Umrandung mit goldener
          Bordüre, mittige, weiße Scheibe mit liegendem, von goldener Bordüre
          eingefasstem, schwarzem Hakenkreuz, umgeben von goldgesticktem
          Eichenblattkranz. Abschließender goldener Fransenbehang, die Oberkante
          mit Tasche für Befestigungsstange. Rückseitiges, rotes Baumwollfutter
          (Riss). 160 x 125 cm.
          Vgl. Lt.Col. Thomas M. Johnson, World War II German War Booty,
          Columbia, 1982, S. 56 ff. mit Abb. eines identischen Exemplars aus der
          Kriegsbeute des amerikanischen Sgt. Ed Lukow mit seinem Bericht über
          die Reichskanzlei "...when I entered one of the rooms, there were two
          large swastika/gold oak leaf tapestries still hanging on one wall with a
          huge portrait of Feldmarschall von Hindenburg between them...". Sowie
          Hermann Historica, Auktion 33, Los Nr. 5200
          ." Sold 4000 Euros (2005)
          Attached Files
          Last edited by oldflagswanted; 12-09-2012, 11:19 AM.
          sigpic
          .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

          Comment


            #20
            OFW,
            Wow! You've done an incredible amount of research and it is much appreciated! Excellent information!
            Thank you very much,
            Fredswiss

            Comment


              #21
              my favorite swastika tapestry ...

              Originally posted by fredswiss View Post
              OFW,
              Wow! You've done an incredible amount of research
              and it is much appreciated! Excellent information!
              Thank you very much,
              Fredswiss
              Hello Fredswiss:
              Thanks, always nice to be appreciated. I was
              inspired to look further into the topic since I'm
              now a collector of movie flags, and had noted
              one of these swastika oak leaf wreath banners
              used in a Hollywood movie, per my post #2.

              OFW
              (below) My favorite WW2 swastika tapestry-banner.
              sigpic
              .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

              Comment


                #22
                yet another ???

                And another example, this one from my flag
                photo files dated 13 Dec 2010. I doubt that it
                is a repeat, and not #8. Maybe from a show?
                Updated thread recap of swastika & wreath banners.
                1. Post #01 & 16 banner, size
                2.05x1.95 m, online USA, *.
                2. Post #07 banner, size 195x220cm, HHA#5231(2012), *.
                3. Post #10 banner, size 4'2"Lx4'H (~127x122cm), *.
                4. Post #12 banner, same banner as p#07, SA RZM tag, * .
                5. Post #14 banner, 48"x48" (~122cm sq.), online USA, *.

                6. Post #09 banner, size unk?, Russia FSB Museum, *.
                7. Post #18 banner, size not listed, online USA, *.
                8. Post #19 banner, size 160x125cm, HHA#7484(2005), *.
                9. Post #22 banner, size unk?, maybe 160x125cm, but not #8, *.
                Total number of photo confirmed (*) examples = 8 (eight banners)
                Vet cited numbers=6 quantity (Post #10), =2 quantity (Post #13 & 17),
                with list count now exceeding same, so vet count stories in doubt.
                OFW
                Attached Files
                Last edited by oldflagswanted; 12-10-2012, 02:16 AM.
                sigpic
                .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                Comment


                  #23
                  more examples ???

                  ................................ Feel free to add more. ...........................
                  sigpic
                  .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Thats some excellent hours of research and information gathering Ben. I appreciate your expertise as always!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Does anyone have one of these for sale right now?
                      JAndrew

                      Comment


                        #26
                        JAndrew, there is one listed onmthe Virtual Grenadier website Here's the link:
                        http://www.virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=650

                        Comment


                          #27
                          more from the Internet...

                          Originally posted by robs View Post
                          Thats some excellent hours of research and information
                          gathering Ben. I appreciate your expertise as always!
                          Thanks ...
                          and another example, this one from the Internet at
                          http://www.museumofworldwarii.com/rise-of-nazism
                          listed as...

                          "Nazi tapestry which hung in the Reichschancellery"
                          Updated thread recap of swastika & wreath banners.
                          1... Post #01 & 16 banner, size
                          2.05x1.95 m, online USA, *.
                          2... Post #07 banner, size 195x220cm, HHA#5231(2012), *.
                          3... Post #10 banner, size 4'2"Lx4'H (~127x122cm), *.
                          4... Post #12 banner, same banner as p#07, SA RZM tag, * .
                          5... Post #14 banner, 48"x48" (~122cm sq.), online USA, *.

                          6... Post #09 banner, size unk?, Russia FSB Museum, *.
                          7... Post #18 banner, size not listed, online USA, *.
                          8... Post #19 banner, size 160x125cm, HHA#7484(2005), *.
                          9... Post #22 banner, size unk?, maybe 160x125cm, but not #8, *.
                          10. Post #27 banner, size unk?, maybe 195x220cm, but not #2/4, *.
                          Total number of photo confirmed (*) examples = 9 (nine banners)
                          Vet cited numbers=6 quantity (Post #10), =2 quantity (Post #13 & 17),
                          with WAF list count now exceeding same, so vet count stories in doubt.
                          OFW
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by oldflagswanted; 12-12-2012, 05:23 PM.
                          sigpic
                          .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                          Comment


                            #28
                            period photos ???

                            Originally posted by paulj View Post
                            ...The lack of photo evidence is annoying ...
                            Originally posted by adlerfan53 View Post
                            ...Suppose we do need photographic proof. ...
                            Still looking for some period photos of these
                            swastika wreath banners in pre-45 use, also
                            shown in Allied hands within the Chancellery.

                            OFW

                            (below) Noted elsewhere on the WAF, in t=431243 ...
                            by Greg Sebring: "Here are a couple of mosaic tiles dad
                            pried up from the floor of Mosaic Hall in the Chancellery."
                            "One of dad's buddies snapped this blurry picture of him
                            removing the tiles."

                            sigpic
                            .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Fredswiss, Thank you for that information.

                              I first saw one of these when I was in college. The college library had an exhibit of items in their collection and one of the items was one of these tapestries. I fell in love with the thing and have always wamted one in my collection. I wrote to the currator of special collections to get more information on it and this is the information I got back if it is at all useful to OFW.

                              ... in the Edward R. Stettinius, Jr. Papers, MSS 2723, there is a needlepoint Nazi banner that measures 51" high and 64" wide with an additional 5" fringe. The background is red with the black Nazi swastika in a field of off-white encircled by gold leaves. This tapestry was displayed in a 1997 exhibit entitled "The Most of Special Collections" under the section "Most Frightening". The text of the exhibit card stated:

                              "Nazi Party Banner.

                              This embroidered banner reportedly hung in Nazi Party headquarters in Berlin. It was retrieved by an American soldier and later presented to the then Secretary of State, Edward R. Stettinius.

                              I have examined the tapestry and there are no markings or manufacturer labels. The backing appears to be sewn on by hand and I would imagine that the needlepoint was also done by hand, but without removing the backing that is only speculation on my part. It is in very good condition and quite beautiful as a work of art, but a little frightening as to its context.

                              Here is an image of their tapestry. I am not sure why it transferred to my computer backwards!

                              JAndrew
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                #30
                                tenth example ...

                                Originally posted by JAndrew View Post
                                ...in the Edward R. Stettinius, Jr. Papers, MSS 2723,
                                ...a needlepoint Nazi banner that measures 51" high
                                and 64" wide with an additional 5" fringe. ...displayed
                                in a 1997 exhibit ...banner reportedly hung in Nazi Party
                                headquarters in Berlin. It was retrieved by an American
                                soldier and later presented to the then Secretary of State,
                                Edward R. Stettinius. ...no markings or manufacturer labels.
                                JAndrew
                                Hello JAndrew:
                                Nice contribution, t
                                hanks for posting.

                                *****************************
                                Updated thread recap of swastika & wreath banners.
                                1... Post #01 & 16 banner, size
                                2.05x1.95 m, online USA, *.
                                2... Post #07 banner, size 195x220cm, HHA#5231(2012), *.
                                3... Post #10 banner, size 4'2"Lx4'H (~127x122cm), *.
                                4... Post #12 banner, same banner as p#07, SA RZM tag, * .
                                5... Post #14 banner, 48"x48" (~122cm sq.), online USA, *.

                                6... Post #09 banner, size unk?, Russia FSB Museum, *.
                                7... Post #18 banner, size not listed, online USA, *.
                                8... Post #19 banner, size 160x125cm, HHA#7484(2005), *.
                                9... Post #22 banner, size unk?, maybe 160x125cm, but not #8, *.
                                10. Post #27 banner, size unk?, maybe 195x220cm, but not #2/4, *.
                                11. Post #29 banner, 51"x64", Sec State Stettinius collection, *.
                                Total number of photo confirmed (*) examples = 10 (ten banners)
                                OFW
                                (below) flipped around post #29 very clean example.
                                Attached Files
                                sigpic
                                .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                                Comment

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