Ratisbons

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Captured Flag Photographs

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    Oldflag,
    My mistake.

    Comment


      #47
      in the rubble ...

      Swastika flags ending up in the rubble.
      OFW

      sigpic
      .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

      Comment


        #48
        German captured RN White Ensign

        German captured Royal Navy (UK) White Ensign.
        OFW
        (below) By mountain snow looks like maybe from Norway.
        sigpic
        .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

        Comment


          #49
          Italy captured RN White Ensign

          Italian capture of a Royal Navy (UK) White Ensign.
          OFW
          (below) Removal the hard way.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by oldflagswanted; 01-01-2013, 03:45 AM.
          sigpic
          .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

          Comment


            #50
            In addition to the Odenwald photo, a picture from my collection. We also know where the flag went. If it's still there?

            Kind regards,

            Maurice
            Attached Files

            Comment


              #51
              the "false flag" tactic ...

              Originally posted by Maurice View Post
              ...Odenwald photo...
              Maurice
              Hello Maurice:
              Noted that the press release flag photo caption says that
              the Odenwald was "disguised and flew the Stars and Stripes".

              An interesting WW2 example of the couple century earlier English
              Royal Navy invented tactic called the "false flag" - an nice example

              of same can be seen in the Gregory Peck Hollywood movie "Captain
              Horatio Hornblower". The British also used this same tactic on the HMS
              Cambelltown during WW2 while attacking the French Port Dry Dock
              flying a British made Nazi RKF. Somewhere I have on file a photo of
              Germans displaying the French Port captured Cambelltown UK made
              RKF, just before the ship blew up killing the German inspection party.
              *** ---> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Nazaire_Raid
              During the WW2 Allied St. Nazaire Raid ("Operation Chariot"), a WW1
              former US destroyer,
              renamed HMS Campbelltown, was altered by the
              Royal Navy to
              look like a German Raubvogel class torpedo boat. And
              the Campbelltown
              flew a now rare UK made RKF of regulation size, the
              Germans took a photo of the captured UK made RKF
              before the ship's
              hidden time bomb blew
              up killing 360 Germans who were inspecting
              the Allied ship
              that was crashed into the dry dock gate. Now that would
              be the RKF
              to own! But that Allied RKF (war-flag) may have been blown
              to bits?

              OFW(below) As made for and issued to US & UK Navy fleet ships, rare today...
              PS/ Likewise, "...On 19 November 1941 the [German Raider] Kormoran and HMS Sydney
              in the Indian Ocean ... off the coast of Western Australia between Carnaron and Geraldton.
              At the time, the German raider was flying a false flag while posing as the Dutch freighter,
              the Straat Malakka, with a black hull and black funnel. Captain Detmers hoped to pass by
              undetected, but Sydney closed in to investigate. The German ship maintained its deception
              until range was about 1,500 metres (1,600 yd), which gave it a better chance of attacking
              the superior Australian warship. According to the surviving crewmen of Kormoran, the Australian
              warship was not expecting battle nor fully prepared for it as her secondary guns were unmanned
              and therefore not trained on Kormoran. Taken by surprise, Sydney was hit about 50 times by
              the raider's 5.9-inch (150 mm) heavy guns before she managed to return fire. Overall, Sydney
              received approximately 150 hits."
              OFW
              ...................................
              (below) from the WW2 Allied St. Nazaire Raid ("Operation Chariot")

              <center></center>
              Attached Files
              sigpic
              .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

              Comment


                #52
                North Korean &amp; Red China captured ...

                Originally posted by TP Alexander View Post
                In my opinion, some of the rarest items to be brought home
                to the US are items from the Korean War! In over 40 years
                of collecting, I have seen 3 items captured and returned to
                the US that were North Korean or Red Chinese!!! Two of
                these items were pieces of paper-propaganda missives.
                Tim
                Hello Tim:
                Ditto that, based on the very few I've seen over 40+ years
                of collecting military flags. IMO rarest are the unit types.

                From the 1980's I recall seeing a PBS multi-night series on
                the Korean War showing veteran soldier interviews from
                both sides? At the end was also shown several captured US
                unit flags on display in the North Korean War Museum - like
                the 31st US Infantry example now on display in China. I would
                like to find out more about those captured US unit flags, such
                as just what units they were from?
                Likely, the 555th FAB, 8th
                US Cavalry, etc.

                OFW
                (below) North Korean & Red China captured (photo confirmed) ...
                PQMD made 31st flag on display in the China Museum. OFW

                (below) full display photo of the Korean War captured US 31st Infantry Regiment flag.

                (below) "Loss of Colors" the cover up (from CMH online):
                "...Official Army records contain no mention of any unit of
                the United States Army having lost its colors to the enemy
                during World War II, the Korean War, or the war in Vietnam.
                There is also no record of any unit having its colors taken
                away as a punishment for any action at any time in the history
                of the United States Army. There have been several rumors
                concerning various units losing their colors. These are
                generally false. Some of these include: a. The 1st Cavalry
                Division in Korea. The incident that apparently gave rise to
                this false rumor appears to be the Unsan Engagement which took
                place on 1 and 2 November 1950 at Unsan, Korea. In that battle,
                the 8th Cavalry, a component of the 1st Cavalry Division, was
                pushed back from positions in and around the town of Unsan by
                vastly superior Chinese forces. The regiment was severely battered,
                suffering heavy casualties and losing a considerable amount of
                equipment. This was one of the first major Chinese operations in
                the Korean War and, like the Changjin (Chosin) Reservoir Battle of
                this same period, it took the United Nations Command by surprise.
                Considering the circumstances, the 8th Cavalry fought very well,
                and it has never been criticized for its conduct in this operation.
                b. The question of the loss of colors by the 7th Cavalry at Little
                Big Horn has also generated considerable debate. Although this office
                has no conclusive evidence one way or the other, it has been suggested
                that Custer's personal flag along with several troop guidons were taken,
                but that the regimental flag was not captured. A regimental flag
                subsequently turned up at the Custer Battlefield National Monument in
                Crow Agency, Montana, but it has never been verified that this was the
                flag at Little Big Horn. There is also a rumor that the 7th Cavalry
                lost its colors in Korea. This can be tracked back to the 7th's
                association with the 1st Cavalry Division and the incident detailed
                in para 5a (above)."
                Originally prepared by DAMH-HSO [later DAMH-FPO]
                12 October 1989, [web] page created 24 October 2001
                OFW
                sigpic
                .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                Comment


                  #53
                  burned before capture ???

                  Before loss to the enemy, if time allowed, often flags were
                  burned to prevent their capture. In Napoleonic times some
                  zealous French soldiers then even ate the remaining ashes
                  of their burnt unit flag - no kidding!
                  On 30 Nov 1950 the 2nd
                  US Engineer Battalion, under attack by 5 Chinese divisions,
                  burned their colors to deny the enemy a war trophy.

                  OFW

                  (below) Korean War Battle of Kunu-ri remembered
                  http://www.stripes.com/news/korean-war-battle-of-kunu-ri-remembered-1.26758
                  Soldiers from the 2nd Engineer Battalion burn the colors at Camp Casey,
                  South Korea, on Wednesday. The annual ceremony is a re-enactment of
                  the actions of 2nd Engineer Battalion Commander Lt. Col. Alarich Zacherle
                  [order to burn the colors] at the Korean War battle at Kunu-ri in 1950.


                  "CAMP CASEY, South Korea — It took years of searching through Army surplus stores
                  to assemble the uniform retired 2nd Engineer Battalion Maj. Arden Rowley, 74, wore
                  to his old unit’s Burning of the Colors ceremony Wednesday.

                  Rowley’s original uniform wore out during the 33 months he spent in North Korean
                  prisoner of war camps after he was captured at the Korean War Battle of Kunu-ri —
                  the event commemorated at the ceremony.

                  The annual Burning of the Colors is a re-enactment of the actions of 2nd Engineer
                  Battalion Commander Lt. Col. Alarich Zacherle at Kunu-ri, north of Pyongyang, on
                  Nov. 30, 1950.

                  On that day the engineers were guarding the rear of the 2nd Infantry Division as
                  it retreated in the face of overwhelming odds, under attack from five Chinese
                  divisions.

                  According to the program for the ceremony, “Zacherle realized the 2nd Engineer
                  Battalion would soon be overrun and unable to withdraw. In an effort to deny the
                  enemy the Battalion colors as a war trophy, he ordered the colors to be burned.”

                  All but one officer from the 2nd Engineer Battalion was killed or captured in the
                  battles around Kunu-ri. More than 5,000 American soldiers were killed, wounded or
                  captured. Many of those taken prisoner did not survive the harsh conditions of the
                  North Korean POW camps.

                  Rowley wore his Korean War era uniform as he recalled his own POW experience for
                  members of today’s 2nd Engineer Battalion, veterans and other 2nd ID soldiers at
                  the ceremony.

                  He bought the uniform, which included a long pile jacket and cap with earflaps to
                  provide extra warmth in Korea’s extreme winter cold, piece by piece at Army surplus
                  stores after the war, he said.

                  “In May 1994, I returned to the area of Panmunjom where on August 18, 1953,
                  I gained my freedom after 33 months being held in North Korea. We crossed the
                  Freedom Bridge. It was an experience I will never forget. Three thousand, five hundred
                  American soldiers returned over that bridge of freedom. I thought of those 3,500
                  American soldiers and many soldiers of other nations who did not return with us —
                  those men who died of the extreme cold, malnutrition or abuse at the hands of their
                  captors,” he said.

                  Rowley, who was an enlisted soldier during the Korean War, recalled the first time he
                  saw a U.S. flag after 2½ years as a POW.


                  “Some of us enlisted had a chance to visit the officers at a POW camp. We had not
                  seen our officers in 2 years. On the second evening an officer approached several
                  enlisted men and we made our way into the completely darkened camp kitchen,”
                  he said.

                  The officer turned on a light in the kitchen to reveal a cake decorated with a U.S. flag,
                  he said.

                  “It had been 2½ years since we had had the privilege of looking upon that symbol
                  of freedom. The cake became to us the real flag of our nation. We held our hands
                  over our hearts and recited the pledge of allegiance to the flag and remembered the
                  many who had given their lives. I remember thinking about what would happen if
                  the guards discovered us, but I didn’t have to worry for long because we quickly
                  devoured the evidence,” Rowley said.

                  The old soldier also read an account of a comrade who died in the Korean War with
                  a frozen tear on his cheek.

                  “What were his last thoughts as he lay dying? Was he thinking about his girlfriend
                  back home … his mother … his child … was he having a conversation with God? He
                  did not have a nurse in a crisp clean uniform wrap a blanket around him. His cries
                  of ‘medic’ went unanswered,” Rowley said.

                  Some of the men who suffered during the Korean War might have wondered if
                  their sacrifices would be worth it, he said.

                  “(On a previous trip to South Korea) I retraced the steps of the 2nd ID as we
                  stopped the North Korean advance at the Pusan perimeter. By retracing those
                  steps and along the way to see the Korean people so happy and prosperous
                  whereas at that time (during the war) they were such a pitiful and abused
                  people I received a confirmation in my mind that our sacrifices were worth it,”
                  he said.

                  Another veteran’s reasons for attending this year’s flag burning ceremony
                  were less complicated.

                  Jim Ditton, 77, of Surprise, Ariz., said he came to see the pride had by the
                  battalion and the engineers have and “the camaraderie and enthusiasm of
                  the present soldiers.”


                  Last edited by oldflagswanted; 01-04-2013, 04:36 AM.
                  sigpic
                  .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                  Comment


                    #54
                    more burned before capture ???

                    Before loss to the enemy, if time allowed, often flags were
                    burned to prevent their capture.
                    This occurred at the end of
                    WW2 with most Imperial Japanese Army regimental flags. The
                    burn order was ignored by the 321st Infantry flag bearer, who
                    returned the flag years later - the only known Infantry example
                    left from WW2, now in the Tokyo Yasukuni Shrine & war museum.

                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine
                    OFW
                    (below) From WAF t=288282 post #25 & 30, by Nick Komiya
                    "The picture showing the burning of the flag on a ship depicts the event on
                    June 15, 1904 during the Russo-Japanese War. The ship Hitachimaru was
                    cornered by three Russian ships. On board was the 1st Regiment of the
                    Imperial Guards. Hitachimaru chose sinking rather than surrender. Lt.
                    Colonel Genjiro Suchi of the Guards ordered the burning of the Army flag
                    and said to have committed seppuku with a smile of relief on his face.
                    Hitachimaru then was sunk by the Russian guns. The 1st Guards were
                    reissued their flag at a later date; one of 5 cases where the flags were
                    reissued to the same unit.
                    ...on Jan 10, 1885, the ...standard with a
                    RED fringe was established for Second Reserve Inft Regiments. ...The
                    flag burned on board the Hitachimaru in 1904 should have had a red
                    fringe, as the Imperial Guards on board were a second reserve unit."


                    (below) Japanese 321st Infantry flag spared end of WW2 burning,
                    n
                    ow on display in Tokyo Yasukuni Shrine. (b) IJA Infantry flag spec.
                    As I post this, now watching "The Brigand of Kandahar" on free
                    over the air DTV-40-2 ---> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058991/

                    Attached Files
                    Last edited by oldflagswanted; 01-05-2013, 05:24 AM.
                    sigpic
                    .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                    Comment


                      #55
                      I remember seeing a movie when I was younger (back in the 20th Century!). It was something about an ex-soldier, returning to the United States from the Spanish Civil War. He had the remains of a regimental flag with him or something to that effect. The Germans were trying to recover said flag (or ashes thereof) as they had won that battle and wanted the flag as their just fruits of that particular victory. During the film, the soldier was talking to an old man about captured regimental battle flags. You had to be in the know, militarily speaking, to get the gist of just how important these flags were to all parties involved, so it probably didn't have a big audience when it was released.
                      It had a very dark atmosphere & was in black and white. It was produced in 1943, so of course it's a very patriotic movie. It was called THE FALLEN SPARROW & starred John Garfield & Maureen O'Hara and was a real piece of filmnoir. John Garfield excelled at these kinds of roles.
                      Here's a link to YouTube:

                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTa2jv3ebCI

                      If you get a chance to watch it, I think you'd enjoy it.
                      Tim
                      Last edited by TP Alexander; 01-05-2013, 10:19 PM.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        The fallen sparrow

                        Originally posted by TP Alexander View Post
                        ...a movie ...something about an ex-soldier, returning to
                        the United States from the Spanish Civil War. He had the
                        remains of a regimental flag with him or something to that
                        effect. The Germans were trying to recover said flag (or ashes
                        thereof) as they had won that battle and wanted the flag as
                        their just fruits of that particular victory. During the film, the
                        soldier was talking to an old man about captured regimental
                        battle flags. You had to be in the know, militarily speaking, to
                        get the gist of just how important these flags were to all parties
                        involved... It was called THE FALLEN SPARROW & starred John
                        Garfield & Maureen O'Hara and was a real piece of filmnoir. ...
                        Tim
                        Hello Tim:
                        THE FALLEN SPARROW, is o
                        ne of my all time favorites.
                        Not just due to John Garfield, but of all people a thin John
                        Banner (later Sgt. Schultz in Hogan's Heroes). You will have
                        to look hard for the film plot flag, as it is never actually shown
                        (a McGuffin as Hitchcock says on his TCM spot). Only part
                        of the Spanish Civil War Republican battle standard shown
                        is a medallion of the Lion of San Rafael, the medallion that
                        had been attached to Kit's (Garfield's) SCW brigade's flag.

                        Based on the 1942 Dorothy B. Hughes novel of the same
                        name, but not about a flag, but rather an engraved cup.
                        IMO the best part of the 1943 movie is the screen play added
                        dialog about the significance of captured battle flags, and
                        even how retaining the burnt ashes of captured flags can still
                        hold symbolic purpose to both the victors & the defeated.

                        OFW

                        (below) Prince Francois St. Louis (Sam Goldenberg) explains about
                        captured flags to "Kit" McKitrick (John Garfield), later showing burnt
                        flag ashes also as proof of victory, and the "house honor sustained."

                        Last edited by oldflagswanted; 01-06-2013, 05:16 AM.
                        sigpic
                        .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                        Comment


                          #57
                          From my collection. Finnish soldiers with captured Soviet flag

                          Comment


                            #58
                            7 scroll arms date ???

                            Originally posted by Aqu View Post
                            From my collection. Finnish soldiers with captured Soviet flag
                            Hello Aqu:
                            Nice photo. Appears to be an early Soviet 7 scroll arms
                            award banner, as front side only contains "Workers of the
                            World Unite" national motto - no unit number & title showing.

                            OFW
                            (below) Soviet Union Arms with national motto expressed
                            in various ethnic languages on the arms wheat shaft scrolls.
                            Soviet Arms versions:
                            1 First version (1923-1936) ------> 7 scrolls, count includes one at bottom.
                            2 Second version (1936-1946) ---> 11 scrolls, but usually embroidered.
                            3 Third version (1946-1956) -----> 16 scrolls, Latvia, Estonia, etc., added.
                            4 Fourth version (1956-1991) ----> 15 scrolls, Finland SSR scroll removed.

                            (below) Scroll detail example...
                            Attached Files
                            sigpic
                            .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                            Comment


                              #59
                              captured German RDF's ...

                              Some WW2 period photos of captured RDF's.
                              OFW

                              (below) US GI's (top left/right), UK Royal Navy, & UK Colonial troop captured (bottom left/right).
                              sigpic
                              .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                              Comment


                                #60
                                captured swastika flag...

                                Another WW2 period photo of a captured flag.
                                OFW

                                (below) WW2 German tank ID flag, US GI captured.
                                sigpic
                                .......^^^ .................... some of my collection ...................... ^^^...

                                Comment

                                Users Viewing this Thread

                                Collapse

                                There are currently 4 users online. 0 members and 4 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 4,375 at 10:03 PM on 01-16-2020.

                                Working...
                                X