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    #76
    Originally posted by JoeW View Post
    Does someone have this copy of Uniform-Markt? Please excuse the curve in the dagger as the page I photographed was bending.

    Page 52 does NOT include information about a dagger, but Seitenwaffen; page 280 mentions:
    die Marinedolche mit dunkelblauem Griff, Polizei-Hoheitszeichen und kugelförmigen ziseliertem Griffkopf.
    This was to be added (renewed) to the information on page 52.

    This was in UM Nr. 18 from September 15, 1939. Page 280

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      #77
      Originally posted by wilhelm Saris View Post
      Page 52 does NOT include information about a dagger, but Seitenwaffen; page 280 mentions:
      die Marinedolche mit dunkelblauem Griff, Polizei-Hoheitszeichen und kugelförmigen ziseliertem Griffkopf.
      This was to be added (renewed) to the information on page 52.

      This was in UM Nr. 18 from September 15, 1939. Page 280
      Thank you Wim. The text above in yellow is the wording used in the first inclusion of the WSP dolch in the ministerial erlass earlier in late 1938.
      Premium paid for Walther Model 8 #727649 and Walther PP #975557

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        #78
        Atwood brought in MANY WPP Daggers without grip insignia

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          #79
          Originally posted by Ron Weinand View Post
          Atwood brought in MANY WPP Daggers without grip insignia

          Along with a lot of garbage and a book full of illusions, IMO.
          Premium paid for Walther Model 8 #727649 and Walther PP #975557

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            #80
            Originally posted by Ron Weinand View Post
            Atwood brought in MANY WPP Daggers without grip insignia
            Ron, Thank you for that piece of information. And now the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit together better. In his book if nothing else he provided "cover" for the importation of them by stating that the earliest WSP daggers had the Police emblems, and it was the later ones that did not. I knew about some of the other PW fakes that he had made for him, but this opens up a whole new chapter. FP

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              #81
              Originally posted by JoeW View Post
              Along with a lot of garbage and a book full of illusions, IMO.
              There is no argument from me. Zero. If there is a problem it's that it has taken many decades to correct them. This one by my estimation 55 years. FP

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                #82
                Originally posted by JoeW View Post
                Along with a lot of garbage and a book full of illusions, IMO.
                Just remember, that does not mean every WPP dagger without insignia is fake.
                Bob
                www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                sigpic

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                  #83
                  Originally posted by BobI View Post
                  Just remember, that does not mean every WPP dagger without insignia is fake.
                  Bob
                  Bob, in my years of collecting and researching police, I found WSP material always difficult to acquire. I never had the opportunity to purchase a dagger. Tunic and headgear yes. I have some photos of WSP personnel, officers and NCOs with blades. None of the daggers are without grip insignia as specified in the decrees. Perhaps I am missing some photos that have been posted of such unmarked daggers being worn by WSP officers?
                  Premium paid for Walther Model 8 #727649 and Walther PP #975557

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                    #84
                    Joe,
                    Hard to say with such a small group and small number of original daggers. I have seen a handful of daggers without insignia that do have all of the wanted characteristics to be original. It would seem as if long term researchers and collectors do feel the same also.
                    Ron, can you offer and details on the daggers that Atwood sold?
                    Thanks!
                    Bob
                    www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                    sigpic

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                      #85
                      Originally posted by BobI View Post
                      Joe,
                      Hard to say with such a small group and small number of original daggers. I have seen a handful of daggers without insignia that do have all of the wanted characteristics to be original. It would seem as if long term researchers and collectors do feel the same also.
                      Ron, can you offer and details on the daggers that Atwood sold?
                      Thanks!
                      Bob
                      Bob, Here's one of the problems with items that are claimed to be "original". That being that without actually looking at the examples themselves there is no basis for comparison. None. And as Serge illustrated, the grip emblems not that hard to make, or to have somebody else to it who has the resources/expertise. One of the others being that you have to look at the facts that have been presented. Is there some ambiguity there that leaves an opening? FP

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                        #86
                        Fred,
                        I do not understand what you are asking, I am asking Ron if he knows details of the ones Atwood made. Just as we know of many of the items he made/assembled. I can absolutely guarantee many people own Atwood daggers and you or no one else will ever know.
                        Bob
                        www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                        sigpic

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                          #87
                          All I can remember about the Atwood WPP Daggers was that they were Eickhorn made and no grip insignal and with the standard NAVAL Eickhorn crossguard. But remember this was before we knew about the WPP Eickhorn.

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                            #88
                            These Atwood WPP Daggers had what was considered to be good Eickhorn parts: Blades, scabbards, hilt fittings. Remember, Eickhorn was still in the dagger business in the 1950s and 1960s, so were they original parts (including the blue leather covered wooden grips) or 1960 era parts. Almost impossible to tell AT THAT TIME IMO. As this was not a high demand model, I am sure there were leftover parts at Eickhorn.

                            Was there a wartime WPP with plain grip: sure, but only a few known.

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                              #89
                              Thanks Ron!
                              I think I know the fittings you mean, I have seen them before. The one I pictured is different if you know what to look for.
                              Bob
                              www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

                              sigpic

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                                #90
                                I will give away one secret concerning TR Period WPP Daggers by Eickhorn: There is a groove inside the grip behind the grip emblem for the prongs. It is rather unusual and runs the lenght of the grip. I have seen this on EVERY WPP by Eickhorn that I or have seen disassembled (3).

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