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Ff33 - Siemens 1944

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    Ff33 - Siemens 1944

    Hi everyone,

    i have recently gotten a fieldphone and researched it through threads here and other interesting sites on the web, but hope you might enlighten me further.
    I also read alot of phones stayed in use after the war so i am hoping to learn more about what might have been altered/added post-war to this one.

    This was a rather impulsive buy but having looked into it some more i will be looking out for a nice, more complete phone ( and accesories ) at future events i visit.

    You can click the thumbs for a larger picture, thanks for having a look!
    I read in a thread the special connection on the side indicates its a Siemens ( 1 of 3 types ) and likely KM use ( shouldnt the green stripe on top be yellow then? ).
    Besides the sliding cover for them also the K1 & K2 jacks are not there.
    The prüftaste button has been removed and covered it seems, can i presume the "DR" mark on the bottom stand for "Deutsche Reich"?
    On top of the generator there is more text " Induktorleistung 3,4 - 4,4 watt " ( unmarked generator crank was included ) .
    The handset is marked 1941 and the plug 1944, cable is black smooth rubber.
    Both caps are flat and the parts underneath look a bit too shiny to be WW2 era...

    Would a original Siemens phone only include bakelite pieces marked with their MPA or would pieces from different manufacterers be commonly used ( especially in 1944 ) ?

    Kind regards, Olivier.

    #2
    This is a typical German Railway version, the plug on the side allowed the phone to be plugged into the railway network's central battery system. These were used well into the postwar years and parts like micorphones etc were often replaced with new ones in postwar years. "DR" might stand for "Deutsche Reichsbahn". This one looks to have been refurbished by Siemens in the postwar years, Siemens carried spares for the FF33 well into the 1980's!

    regards,

    Funksammler

    Comment


      #3
      I agree that the DR mark indicates Reichsbahn issue. Very neat, I like it.

      Comment


        #4
        There is a second model made specially for the railways called the W/OB, trgb. This one comes with a dialling disk and some switches. This also comes in the standard FF33 bakelite casing and also features the plug on the side.

        regards,

        Funksammler

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the very informative commenting Funksammler, this fieldphone surprises me again!
          So its a specific model for railwayuse made in 1944 and refurbished post-war, not a regular Heer phone modified post-war ( my initial thought seeing the WaA stamps and a green stripe on the case )... hope i got it right there.
          Does the lack of K1 & K2 jacks in this version explain the lack of a cover for them or is this just missing from my case?

          Thank you for sharing your opinion on the stamp Chris, nice to hear you like it ( it still works btw).

          Cheers, Olivier.

          Comment


            #6
            Difficult to say if it was modified during or post war. I assume that the Reichsbahn versions were just picked off the producton line for modification during the war and after the war surplus military phones were used. The Wa stamp may point at the latter but I am not sure.

            As far as I am aware the Reichsbahn version did not have jacks, nor did it have the Prueftaste (The phone rings when calling out, so no need for a separate test).

            For those reading German, there is a bit more info on this forum page: http://www.wasser.de/telefon-alt/for...&kategorie=14-

            regards,

            Funksammler

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks again for all the great info on my phone Funksammler, once i get a 2nd one it will get a new life as intercom.

              Cheers, Olivier

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Olivier V. View Post
                ...Does the lack of K1 & K2 jacks in this version explain the lack of a cover for them or is this just missing from my case?..
                Looks like you are simply missing the cover... At the RKK Radio Museum, we have two samples of such DR Telephones (further referred to as TEL-1 and TEL-2), both in Bakelite cases and both having the covers in place:



                On top of that we have similar Siemens telephone in a leather case which has "OB33" identification at the bottom:







                They all are parts of our new Telephone Exhibit in Showcase No.10 now which you can't see on our site yet:







                While Siemens telephone was clearly marked as "OB33" (OB = "Ortsbatterie" or Local Battery), the two guys in Bakelite cases have no Type ID at all.

                The TEL-1 on top of poorly readable "WaA" stamp, has barely visible character string which reads "608877 ber E":



                The "ber" letters definitely are the Manufacturer's Code (Fertigungskennzeichen, FKZ) of "Friedrich Reiner Telefonfabrik" which was located in München at Jahnstr. 38. Firma Friedrich Reiner was started in 1881 and is in business as of today under the name "Friedrich Reiner Telekommunikation".

                They list their location now as Landau/Thalham and in their Telephone Museum no military or railway phones are mentioned. Probably the consequences of "denazification" procedures...

                The case of our TEL-1 should have been made in 1943:



                Together with "WaA" stamp it looks like enough proof that such DR Telephones have been manufactured during the WWII already.

                Our TEL-2 has no markings which could give a clue to the Manufacturer. And its generator looks quite different from the traditional Wermacht telephone generators painted red:



                In both TEL-1 and TEL-2, there is a component at which red arrow on the previous picture points (some transformer or...). What looks really strange to me is the bottom line which reads "Made in Germany":



                Looks like export considerations were prevailing over the "friend or foe" principles for the German industry even in 1939-1945...

                Once again guys, I would like to have your expertise on the Model Name (or Type) of the Bakelite case DR telephones. I'm going to use the correct Type in the explanations for such telephones on our RKK Radio Museum site.

                73 - Walt, RA3CC.
                Last edited by RA3CC; 11-17-2012, 06:48 AM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi Walt,

                  thanks for answering my question and the elaborate post on your examples, love the display also.
                  As it was me that started the thread its unlikely i can help you with any expert advice on the correct designation but i still think it is hard to say when the " railroad" adaptations were made based on any Third Reich markings found on the hardware itself or the case.
                  Without any picture or documentation of this configuration being used pre mid 1945 it seems impossible to prove they were, especially with the many FF's available after the war and like Funksammler stated, Siemens having spares for them well into the 1980's.

                  On this webpage about bakelite markings its claimed the numbers do not refer to a date but a manufacterers code assigned by the "Materialprüfungsamt".
                  In that case the "43" would stand for "Dynamit AG, vormals Alfred Nobel und Co, Abt. Zelluloidfabrik, Werk Troisdorf" and the T2 "Type 2
                  Synthetic material with Asbestos or alternatively an organic filler" ( asbes... ). Does not make it any less likely to be Third Reich era manufactered ofcourse but also gives little hard evidence our FF's were made back then in the configuration they are now IMO.


                  Thanks again for commenting and hope you get an answer to your question from the more expierenced folks.

                  Kind regards, Olivier.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Olivier V. View Post
                    ...In that case the "43" would stand for "Dynamit AG, vormals Alfred Nobel und Co, Abt. Zelluloidfabrik, Werk Troisdorf" and the T2 "Type 2 Synthetic material with Asbestos or alternatively an organic filler"... Does not make it any less likely to be Third Reich era manufactered of course...
                    Hi Oliver! What makes me believe in the "Third Reich era" manufacturing are not the "43" digits inside the case but the "WaA" stamp on the top panel along with imitation of the "Prüftaste" button next to it. This is pure imitation which one can not depress, it's just a plastic:



                    Still I wonder if the same "OB33" Model Number of Siemens DR telephone would be appropriate to use for the Bakelite case units...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Ff33

                      If you are looking for more FF33s , talk to me 1 -

                      rgds Ragnar

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey Walt,

                        if our 1944 FF33's were produced or even just adapted for railroad use before may 1945 i would expect more authentic parts.
                        A few of the things that seem drastic or strange on my Siemens for a mere conversion:
                        The frame was repainted as shown by the enlarged hole (the lowest of the 3 that usually hold the jack1 & 2 connector) with no bare metal visible and the paint covering the red rings around the screws on top that attach the frame to the case.
                        A condensor has been removed and replaced by a piece of wood painted silver to match the other one which looks post-war aswell.
                        The case my Siemens is in looks put together from all kinds of bits and pieces (lid and housing dont match nor do any screws + certain metal plates missing) which seems strange if it came out of the factory this way or was only altered internaly during the remainder of the war.

                        Don't get me wrong, i would love it to be a factory or war era altered piece but remain sceptical based on what i can see on my own and your examples.

                        I saw Oscar posted a OB33 in a bakelite case on the Russian forum, do you know when it was made? On another forum i found an interesting OB33 in a wooden case ( post #7 on this page ), with a 1942 Braun induktor but from the same maker Oscars is ( TN, assuming his induktor is original ). He discusses the phone a bit more on this thread (German forum) aswell but a date of manufacture is not mentioned.

                        I would like to ask you when your Siemens OB33 was made and if the induktor on your TEL1 is WaA stamped and actually made by Reiner?
                        If you change the arrow 180° on the following pic it points to a red marking of some sort that also is on my Siemens (pic) on the same spot, is this common on FF33's or could this be specific to our models/conversions?


                        Kind regards, Olivier.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Dear RA3CC,

                          the bakelite MPAD pressmark "43 and T2" in the internal bottom stands for the maker and material of the bakelit case. "43" is Dynamit AG, "T2" is the production code of the bakelite material.

                          Best regards: Csaba

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by csmagdo View Post
                            ...the bakelite MPAD pressmark "43 and T2" in the internal bottom stands for the maker and material of the bakelit case. "43" is Dynamit AG, "T2" is the production code of the bakelite material.
                            Dear Csaba, thanks for your info about "43" and "T2". I have not visited this forum for over 2 years, but because of starting ultimate "refurbishing" of my museum site I went to these old discussions about Deutsche Reichsbahn telephones.

                            Will update my text explanations on the DR telephones now to include your info and several of Funksammler's comments. Sorry, doing it all in Russian language at this stage just ignoring my English part of the site. Anyways if you (or other forum participants) would be interested in my refurbishing effort you may try to visit the first section ready to exhibit at http://www.rkk-museum.ru/excursions/excursions.shtml

                            the Main Page of my site may be found at http://www.rkk-museum.ru/index.htm and as you may see the museum name was recently changed from "RKK Radio Museum" to "Valeriy Gromov Radio Museum"

                            Comment

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