EdelweissAntique

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Visor Caps--Should CLoth Insignia Be Stitched Through the Lining?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Visor Caps--Should CLoth Insignia Be Stitched Through the Lining?

    OK, NTZ's topic on "pierced linings" was very well-received, and one of the best discussions on a somewhat controversial topic that we've had in a long time. So, for this one, state what your experience is with closth insignia that is stitched through the lining (not just the pasteboard).
    This topic includes both Eagles AND Wreaths. Do you believe that when they left the factory they did not have stitching thru the lining? Or does it apply to only eagles and not wreaths? Or, did the makers have "blank" caps at which the "effekten" stores placed the insignia on for the choice of the buyer?

    Post Away--Pro or Con!
    122
    Yes, it was stitched thru the lining at the factory
    10.66%
    13
    No, stitching thru the lining is always postwar done.
    13.93%
    17
    Stitching thru the lining was done wartime, but after the hat left the factory
    20.49%
    25
    A combination of the above three
    54.92%
    67
    NEC SOLI CEDIT

    #2
    I have to say it is a mix of all three. I have some visors with no stitching through the lining. I also have some with. I just checked all mine with the stitching through the lining and all but one show absolutely no signs of ever having holes in the pasteboard. These are well-used visors. This can only tell me that there was never an alloy wreath and cockade on these. Since they are well worn we can rule out the unissued post war add on theory. The funny thing is the one visor with the holes has a very well seated wreath. Post war done, more than likely but a long time ago. I will see if I can shoot some pics later.

    Comment


      #3
      Here is an example of one I feel is period done through the lining. As sloppy as it may look this visor is well worn with no signs of alloy ever. In fact the alloy cockade on this one does not go through the pasteboard but is only attached to the bullion wreath. I just looked under the lining with a flashlight and also felt around. I am absolutely positive there are no holes so it never had an alloy wreath.

      An important note here. Look at the stitching that holds the lining down. Now look at the stitching that holds the wreath on. They are exactly the same thread, same color, thickness and texture. What are the odds unless it was done at the same time by the maker?
      Attached Files

      Comment


        #4
        Under the hood and no the marks you see are not holes, they are stains.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by NTZ; 03-18-2007, 02:22 PM.

        Comment


          #5
          I think insignia could have been period sewn on through the lining, but most likely not by a professional- more like the wearer himself or his wife or mother...

          Comment


            #6
            I was under the impression that some of these visors were stocked in tailor shops sans insignia so that the new owner could make the decision whether to invest in metal or bullion for his hat.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by GFM View Post
              I was under the impression that some of these visors were stocked in tailor shops sans insignia so that the new owner could make the decision whether to invest in metal or bullion for his hat.
              This is my understanding also. I would think after the officer decided on insignia the cap maker affixed them to the visor.

              Comment


                #8
                This is a mint RLB officer hat that has the eagle sewn through the lining. It appears to have always been that way.

                Bob Hritz
                Attached Files
                In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

                Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

                Comment


                  #9
                  RLB visor hat interior.

                  Bob Hritz
                  Attached Files
                  In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

                  Duct tape can't fix stupid, but it can muffle the sound.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Bob
                    That RLB cant be real..Its got a grey sweatband and visor ..Just kidding!!Nice Cap!! ..Another one of those old tales of yore...Billbert
                    "They NEVER did that....YEAH they did ....."

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Amazing, I thought that this topic would be much more controversial that the prong-piercing debate! I'll add my 2 cents--I agree, they can be both--I have seen wreaths stitched thru the lining and not the Adler and vice-versa; I have seen examples where neither was stitched thru the lining; and examples where both were stitched--all of which I believe where war-time done.

                      What I look for is the quality of the stitching on the outside of the cap--these seamstresses (or the master hatmaker himself) ON MOST HATS (not all) use an almost "invisible stitch" method where the stiching is almost impossible to discern--that is what I look for (and I am talking about extra-mutzen, with bullion insignia).

                      Nick, refresh my memory--I used to have 2 Erel LW officers, and both had the adler sewn thru the lining---was this common practice on Erels?
                      NEC SOLI CEDIT

                      Comment


                        #12
                        My thoughts are that premium manufacturers would take custom orders so the insignia would be applied during the manufacturing process. Thus, no stitiching through the lining. I also believe that hats wee also bought enmasse for a less expensive marketing to younger officers in the Wehrmacht. These hats, most likely, would have insignia stitched through the lining. The owner at the time of purchase could opt for metal or hand embroidered or a combination of both. These caps should be found with stitching through the liner fabric.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Keep in mind that pretty much any prefessional tailor, seamstress, or hat-maker would be able to sew insignia on a completed hat perfectly WITHOUT going all the way through the lining...I still find 'through the lining' stitching rather amateurish...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Arran View Post
                            Keep in mind that pretty much any prefessional tailor, seamstress, or hat-maker would be able to sew insignia on a completed hat perfectly WITHOUT going all the way through the lining...I still find 'through the lining' stitching rather amateurish...
                            Arran-
                            I fully understand your point on this issue. I think as collectors, at times will overanalyze something. I believe the issue being discussed on this thread is just such an example. To the orignal user and owner of a hat, would sewn through the lining insignia be a big deal? Would they even think of it as a problem? The visor cap was a cover and nothing more. The owner would be concerned with it being clean and in good condition.
                            Likely the manner in which the insignia was attached would be of little to no concern. I am sure that was the same situation with a hat distributor that stocked hats less insignia. Supply the owner with what he wants and apply the insignia in the most expeditious manner.
                            I can affirm that sewn through the lining insignia did exist in period. When I began collecting in the 50's I was especially interested in visor caps. This is long before the days of high end fakes. It was also not worth the time of a dealer to alter what at the time was a commonly found commodity. I have seen examples with just the cockade sewn through the lining and both insignia applied as such. In the long run, the method of application has no impact on the value as long as it is the proper insignia.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ultimately, I agree with you Bob. I've also owned caps with what I felt to be originally applied insignia (both sewn and metal) that went through the lining. Although German tailors and manufacturers produced items of astounding quality and construction, there will always be original exceptions...

                              Cheers,
                              Arran.

                              Comment

                              Users Viewing this Thread

                              Collapse

                              There is currently 1 user online. 0 members and 1 guests.

                              Most users ever online was 4,375 at 10:03 PM on 01-16-2020.

                              Working...
                              X