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SS stick pin Otto Gahr

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    #16
    Rivett had some interesting takes: https://www.bitchute.com/video/5ce0bG8fp8o/
    Will pay top money for items related to "Füsilier-Regiment Königin Viktoria von Schweden (Pommersches) Nr 34"

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      #17
      And as everyone can see, the number of originals is well centered in the middle above the needle/pin !

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        #18
        I'd love to get my hands on the other version and compare the makers mark with other Gahr items.
        Will pay top money for items related to "Füsilier-Regiment Königin Viktoria von Schweden (Pommersches) Nr 34"

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          #19
          Originally posted by Reinhard2 View Post
          All the time, Gahr used SILBER and 900 which is not on the 11872 !
          Not all the time. I remember seing another Gahr stick pin without the markings Silber and 900
          Like Joe said previously there were different rear markings: "Gahr München Silber 900", "Gahr München 900" and "Gahr München"

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            #20

            I found in NARA records that the the actual designer of the SS-ZA was Walter Heck, who worked for Hoffstätter.

            There is mention of a special award going to the designer of the SS-Zivilabzeichen, Walter Heck, and to the manufacturer of the SS-ZA, Hoffstätter.

            I had heard that the graphic designer who created the Sigrunen was paid 2.50 Reichsmarks - Walter Heck.

            But it’s news to me that he designed the SS-ZA .

            So IMHO, the Gahr pins came second, and are for those who needed a replacement for original Hoffstätter pins.

            I did a little more digging, and one our esteemed colleagues here, HPL2008x posted very valuable info on another forum. The fact seems to be that the SS-ZA was designed in 1929, and was the apparently the first use of the Sig runes design.

            https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/histo...grunen-444531/

            Last edited by Volksturmer; 11-27-2020, 11:47 AM.

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              #21
              Sorry Gents, I should have started another thread with this subject about Walter Heck.

              Schoenwurf, the Gahr pin you posted to start this thread is gorgeous.

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                #22
                Nice pin in post #1 Schoenwurf.
                I got a Gahr pin also, maybe someone can help me with the number ?

                Attached Files

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                  #23
                  Here is another thread about the Gahr pin. Pin #1 to be precise. From a year ago or so. And the Heck file is discussed quite a bit.
                  https://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...ng#post7427293
                  Collecting is a continuing education!
                  Premium
                  paid for Walther Model 8 #727649 and Walther PP #975557

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                    #24
                    I wish someone would fix the darn editing function. I keep getting the message Error 403 forbidden. What a PITA.

                    I wanted to add that according to documentation in the SS/Heck file in NARA, Heck's design was used by Hoffstatter beginning in 1929 to produce pins at RM .50 each with the pin guard at RM .20. There is no evidence that Gahr created the design or produced any beginning in 1929. Heck also created the HJ, DJ and NSDStB logos.
                    Collecting is a continuing education!
                    Premium
                    paid for Walther Model 8 #727649 and Walther PP #975557

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                      #25
                      Joe,

                      thanks for this great information, very nice detective work I must say. I read back over the thread you shared and I’m just blown away. There is nothing new under the sun - but this info you’ve uncovered is incredible.

                      Heck’s design must have resonated with Himmler - in 1929(!) IMHO, because the OrgBuch page of SS regalia has so many items that mimic the SS-ZA: the SS-ZA itself, the buttons of the 33 and 36 daggers, the Degen and portopee.

                      For such a small item, the SS-ZA is a truly classic design and the first use of the victory runes - Surprisingly Iconic work for a poorly paid Artist named Walter Heck!
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by Volksturmer; 11-28-2020, 06:14 PM.

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                        #26
                        * Good topic guys!..

                        Sorry off topic , that Jo Rivett has some interesting videos occasionally!

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                          #27
                          What do you think about the idea that (not according to Jo Rivett) Gahr used the same letters to struck his name and town into the pin because he got the letters either from Deschler or from the steel producer who produced the dies for the Deschler badges (if Deschler didn't produce the dies himself) ?

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                            #28
                            Reinhard,
                            I’m no expert on Gahr markings. But I am aware of the Micro Joe videos. I believe Gahr really did produce the alternatives and replacements of these SS-ZA pins, because the quality of the Hofstätter pin was not good enough for the likes of AH and other high figures, and the 1936 order that Hoffstätters could not be replaced, that Joe found.

                            I think your theory is an interesting one. I know that one of the chronic shortages for Germany during the war was machine tools for making dies. The markings on the Gahr types differ over time, I know. Whether Deschler actually produced them, instead of Gahr? Your theory is an interesting one which could explain the same markings appearing on Gahr and Deschler - ’Silber’ for example. Has any other maker been found to have this identical standard marking on any of their badges?

                            Again I am no expert. But it would be interesting to see if the differing marking configurations of the Gahr badges, break down by the SS-ZA number? As in the markings change with higher numbers? Could the Gahr production of the SS-ZA have been shifted to Deschler at some point? Why?

                            Silver items are the easiest to fake, which makes the Gahr type even more tricky.
                            Last edited by Volksturmer; 12-01-2020, 12:37 PM.

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                              #29
                              Here a few more interesting photos of my Gahr Zivilabzeichen #306 ...
                              Thanks to the anonymous WAF member who helped me to attribute the stick pin

                              SS Otto Gahr #306 b (collec perso).jpg SS Otto Gahr #306 c (collec perso).jpg

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                                #30
                                Attributed! And such a low number, so early!
                                Congratulations, that is a dream I have for my humble Hoffstätter!
                                I am not the Gahr expert, that is for sure. For me they are very tricky, so I am not buying Gahr without more knowledge.

                                I’m lucky I bought my Hoffstätter from an expert in these pins.

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