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Form IV Reichsleitung Visor Piping

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  • stonemint
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    Reichslager tab. Backing is chocolate-brown velvet:
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  • stonemint
    replied
    I will be the first to admit that is extremely difficult to tell in b&w pics, but the velvet on the PL in #61 does not appear to be Hellbraun (the light brown used on standard PL Form 3 visors).

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  • stonemint
    replied
    Cuff-title:
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  • stonemint
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    Tabs close-up--piping is rayon:
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  • stonemint
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    Bob C owns one of these tunics in the Form 3 pattern:
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  • stonemint
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    Another leader from the same album:
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  • stonemint
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    Close-up of tab:
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  • stonemint
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    Robert H previously posted an album from a Reichlager Official. This is the Form 3 in wear:
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  • stonemint
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    OK, time to throw a wrench into this thread. This hat is a Form 4 (not an upgraded Form 3), and has orange-yellow (Orangegelb) piping, with a chocolate-brown velvet band.

    I have done a lot of research, and imho, orange-yellow was the primary color of the Ordensburgen, at least through 1940-41, when we first see the lemon-yellow (WH-Signals shade) of the Ordensburg Vogelsang hoard.

    Most shoulder straps for Ordensburgen are in the orange-yellow, as is the collar piping. You will see the standard Reichsleitung Goldgelb (golden-yellow, same shade as WH Cavalry.) The bodies of these caps run the gamut, from the same shade as standard PL, to a darker shade of wool.

    I have no doubt this is an early 1939 Ordensburgen visor. The question is why the chocolate-brown band. I do not believe it to be a maker variation, as everything at this point (1939) was deliberate under the auspices of the RZM. (Rostbraun is the standard RZM color for the standard PL visor).

    The NSDAP did use chocolate brown velvet bands, but only with the Form 2 (M-34) visors. With the Form 3 they went to Hellbraun, or light-brown, and finally the Rostbraun of the Form 4's.

    Now, the only NSDAP organisation using chocolate-brown velvet with yellow-based piping was for those Officials who were teachers in the Reichslager fur Beamte. Their tabs had a silver-embroidered Tyr-rune on a chocolate-brown velvet base with yellow piping. As best I can tell, they were separate from the Ordensburgen, but someone can correct me if I am wrong.

    Unfortunately, as of yet, there are no period pics of these uniforms in in wear in color, nor are there any black and white ones in the Form 4 set-up. However, it is my theory is that this hat was for one of them (the flash makes the piping and velvet look lighter than they really are):
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  • John Pepera
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    (d)
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  • John Pepera
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    (c)
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  • John Pepera
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    (b)
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  • John Pepera
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    (a)

    My contribution to the parade;
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  • Bob Coleman
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    The Answer To The Puzzlement Of This Cap May Be Answered Some Day If This Name Can Be Researched
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  • Bob Coleman
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    Odd Maker " Anton Kinting. Aachen "
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