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s.Pz Abt Grossdeutschland

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  • Archi
    replied
    Hello !

    @pep and Akira : Thanks for the kind words !

    This is a very interesting photo and fits very well to the situation.
    I never heard of such a thing as a "Schlittenkufenbiegerei".
    Fascinating, thanks for sharing that !

    Best regards,

    Archi

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  • Akira Takiguchi
    replied
    The difficulties with 18th is the changes of the Kompanie numbers in their lifetime, such as:

    FPNr. 01457 ... 2.Kp./Pz.Abt.B => 5.Kp./Pz.Rgt.18 => 6.Kp./Pz.Rgt.18 => 1.Kp./Pz.Abt.18 => 1.Kp./Pz.Abt.504

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  • Akira Takiguchi
    replied
    Thank you for the great information, Archi!

    This color slide clearly describes the 18th
    Attached Files

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  • pep
    replied
    archi, great job as ususal !!

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  • Archi
    replied
    Hello !

    1.) Very nice group ! Thanks for showing .

    2.) Regarding the questions raised by pep and Akira :

    2.a) pep : This is indeed difficult to understand. At least there is a connection between
    Pz.Abt. 18, Pz.Ers.Abt. 500 (Tiger) and Pz.Abt. 504 (see below).

    2.b) Akira : This is also very difficult to understand in detail.
    What happened in general (compiled from various sources : Scherzer, Tessin, Gross, Paul (= div. history, see scans) etc.) :
    The Pz.Rgt. 18 was heavily mauled early in Barbarossa. Already in August 41, the I. Abteilung had to be dissolved.
    By November 1941, the few remaining operational tanks had been merged into a single Abteilung under II./PR 18 (see KGl. 30.11.41).
    Internally, this unit might have been designated Pz.Abt. 18 already at that time.
    Strength of the Abteilung on 10.1.1942 can be seen from the 2nd scan. (only -1 Pz. II, -11 Pz.III B, -2 Pz.. IV operational !)
    (On this KGl. Jan. 42 you can also see the mentioning of Schlitten/sledges as transport ! A nice example for : From (mot) to hot !)

    From some time in Dec. 41 (?) onward, the remnants of the other Abteilungen of Pz.Rgt. 18 should have fought as infantry.
    These (infantry) companies could have been led by HQ of III./Pz.Rgt. 18 (?!) [this seems to be indicated by the docs found by Akira].
    Later, in April 1942, the tanks might have been controlled by HQ of III./Pz.Rgt 18 and the I. and II. in control of the "infantry".
    (see 3rd scan from a Stellenbesetzung April 1942).
    (This is all a bit confusing. It's not clear to me, which Abt. of Pz.Rgt. 18 controlled which units when ...).

    Finally, in May 42, the Pz.Rgt. 18 was officially dissolved.
    6., 7., and 11. Kp. formed Panzer-Abteilung 18, which first served under 18. Pz.Div.,and later became Heerestruppe.
    I can only assume that by then, the assigned replacement unit in 1943 was Pz.Ers.Abt. 500 (Paderborn).
    At least, when the Pz.Abt. 18 was dissolved in autumn 1943, the personnel was used to fill up Pz.Abt. 504 (a "Tiger unit").
    (all this certainly needs more research ...)

    The award docs would be in general agreement with this "story line" :
    - Pz.Kampf.Abz. "silber" issued by the Abteilungs HQ of Pz.Abt. 18 (=II./Pz.Rgt. 18, FPN 00066)
    - EK II issued by the division, still names his "official" unit : 6./Pz.Rgt 18 (but at that time, only a Kp. within an Abteilung,
    instead of Pz.Rgt. 18).

    I hope, this gives at least an idea. It would be nice of course, to see additional information, e.g. from a Soldbuch of Pz.Rgt. 18 .

    Best regards,

    Archi
    Attached Files

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  • Akira Takiguchi
    replied
    These are interesting documents for me.

    http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/d...inspect/zoom/4

    dated Feb 13, 1942, this document has entries "Pz.Abt.18" and III./Pz.Rgt.18 . Your doc in December 1941 says 6./Pz.Abt.18 and January 1942 doc says 6./Pz.Rgt.18 (!)

    I've been wondering what was happening during this period since I found the doc in germandocsinrussia...

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  • Jelle M.
    replied
    Excellent document group, thanks for sharing

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  • pep
    replied
    just wondering why he was awarded with EK1 in pz.gren.rgt.101 and the other document state that he was in paderborn with the abteilung 500 ...

    perhaps because 101 was attached to heeresgruppe mitte as previous unit??

    anyway, great group.

    Leave a comment:


  • VtwinVince
    replied
    Excellent grouping to a brave Frontkaempfer.Very nice Nehring signature on the one doc.

    Leave a comment:


  • FBB
    started a topic s.Pz Abt Grossdeutschland

    s.Pz Abt Grossdeutschland

    Here Oblt Rudolf Leussing group. s.Pz Abt GD
    Attached Files

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