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    Marseille fake combat report

    To end any further speculation regarding the accuracy of Haas’s analysis of the two Marseille combat reports shown to be fake, e.g., Brian H questioned Haas’s findings because he had only done an analysis of a scan and Frost suggested that scans were forged, I asked Gary, the owner of the #6 fake Marseille combat report (sold to him by Koerlin, who is in business with Frost) to send the original #6 report to Haas (the same one which Haas identified as a fake from just a scan). The attached is from Haas’s report in relation to the analysis of the actual combat report. It is again determined as a clear fake by Haas, and that signature is therefore a clear example of a fake Marseille. You just need to look at all the other signatures of this style in plentiful supply shown to see more very likely fake stuff.

    Frost disagrees with Haas’s findings and states that the R01 type face is still open for debate. End of that argument… Frost hasn’t sent his six reports to Haas, of course. The outcome would seem inevitable and Frost would never reveal Haas’s reports anyway…

    Frost claims his Third Reich expert from a university with a doctorate “had Authenticated and Laboratory tested” the six Marseille combat reports he has”… and “He also authenticates all Third Reich items offered for sale through Legends Aviation Gallery.” No evidence of this, no comment on the ‘forensic’ tests done, no ‘expert’ named, nothing but worthless CoA’s and grandiose claims.

    Although I don’t wish to give any credence to Frost’s silly legal threats, Frost states in the Helmut Lent thread (post #26), “…( My Legal team have spoken with Herr Haas at great length )…”. I naturally contacted Haas by email regarding this claim by Frost. I quote the relevant part of Haas’s reply “I have not been in touch either verbally or in written text with Mr. Frost or any of his legal representatives.” I merely show this to reflect the reality of what is going on with Frost.

    And Frost has claimed Haas feels conned regarding the scans and is not happy, yet Frost has never ever been in touch with Haas... Clearly, Haas had no problem with conducting the analysis requested by Gary or responding to my email. Gary can of course corroborate this.

    BTW a big thanks to Gary for getting the original document analysed by Haas and passing on the results to share here.
    Attached Files

    #2
    Report

    Attached is Haas's report in English of his analysis of the original #6 fake combat report. Thanks again to Gary.
    Attached Files

    Comment


      #3
      Good work Gary and Jeremy.
      Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

      Comment


        #4

        Thanks Gary and Jeremy - the ultimate prove has herewith been presented !!

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          #5
          Excellent and thorough detective work, as usual.I can't wait to hear a response
          Last edited by Simon O.; 12-18-2011, 01:18 PM. Reason: toned down

          Comment


            #6
            The faker must be a very very stupid person to take a moderne typewriter.

            Comment


              #7
              Ironic how we think of 'modern' we're talking of a 50 year old typewriter and it was made only 20 years after the war, but you're right, strange when there are pre-45 typewriters about.
              Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by frankandfrank View Post
                The faker must be a very very stupid person to take a moderne typewriter.

                So true.
                I think more than that, most fakers are looking for quick buck off an easy mark.
                They're not even imagining that their "work" will be getting this amount of scrutiny.
                So in the end that in itself makes them very stupid, because there will always be a trail right back to them. And some investigators and/or victims will not stop until the culprit is busted.
                Jp

                Comment


                  #9
                  Jeremy

                  I have enjoyed all of your threads concerning RKT signatures, and have followed them with great interest.

                  Given the comprehensive detail in the report above it is hard to see how any come-back can be made in the face of the report from Herr Haas in relation to the Marseille combat reports. That they have been made post-war is now certainly not a question of doubt.

                  Great detective work Jeremy.

                  Regards Richard.
                  Always looking for Luftwaffe Kampfflieger related document groups. In particular anything to Kampfgeschwader 2.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Good work Jeremy, and all others involved.

                    I did mention it before, but I think that they will use a pre-war or war-time typewriter next time they make their fakes, to make their new fakes even more original then the fakes they are selling as originals now.

                    They thought that an old typewriter is an old typewriter, but the one they used was not old enough, or they did not want to spend extra money on an old period one.

                    So to say, the fakes will get better.......

                    yours friendly

                    Eric-Jan

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                      #11
                      Here are the facts Gents,

                      The combat report examined by Mr Haas is the exact item that I bought directly from Mr Stefan Koerlin approximately 5 years ago. It came complete with a COA (already shown previously on another thread).
                      Mr Haas is a known and respected expert in his field. He has stated, WITHOUT DOUBT, that the typewriter used to produce this document is post war.
                      I'll let you decide who's telling the truth.....

                      By the way, thanks for posting the scans Jeremy.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        That's true Eric-Jan but who would trust a Marseille (or any other ace signed) combat report now, unless the provenance was solid?

                        The ball is firmly in their court.


                        It may seem like a stupid mistake to make, but without the expertise of one of perhaps a handful of guys in the world, maybe even fewer, who would be able to tell?

                        Compared to much of what we see here it's a very competent effort, just look at yesterday's thread concerning some typewritten letters, where the faker decided that Rommel had a 'von' in front of his name. Or last week where an award document had the faker mistaking a kompanie number for a batallion and then used the english abbreviation for battalion, ie. batt.
                        Collecting German award documents, other paperwork and photos relating to Norway and Finland.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Seems like a well defended argument.
                          I am suprised to see this thread has not had more attention.

                          Looking forward to a response / discussion on this topic from some of the other people involved.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Simon,

                            I know that their fakes are very well done, and a lot of collectors still do believe in them.

                            Without the Mr. Haas analysis of the two Marseille combat reports, it would still be a yes and no game.

                            yours friendly

                            Eric-Jan

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I hope this isn't a stupid question, (and i don't know what an RO1 typeface is)
                              but does this mean that , for example , all M's and W's with the shortened middle character are post war typed , or is there more to it than that.
                              thanks
                              Greg

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