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PAB 75 JFS x 2

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  • pavels_2005
    replied
    Hi Jeff and Fafnir,

    I agree that this PABs were manufactured and awarded in both variants with gold or grey wreaths. The questions is why????

    There is also question why some nice gold wreath JFS PABs are not among collectors. I never saw picture of such piece in good condition. We always see ground dug pieces or pieces with just remains of the gold finish….

    Any more opinions welcome.

    Best regards
    Pavel

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  • Jeff V
    replied
    Nice pics fafnir. To me it is clear that these badges were manufactured both ways, with gilded wreaths and without. The reason why I have no idea.

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  • fafnir
    replied
    Here is a piece with the brow patina, which in my opinion also indicates a former gilding

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  • fafnir
    replied
    Here is a piece with the brow patina, which in my opinion also indicates a former gilding

    Leave a comment:


  • fafnir
    replied
    Hier ein Stück mit der erwähnten braunen patina. Welche meiner meinung nach auf eine ehemalige vergoldung deuten könnte.

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  • fafnir
    replied
    Hello Pavel,

    Thanks for the pictures. I've seen such a denazified PAB 75 at GCA before ... maybe it was the same !?

    That's a clear indication that these gray ones were actually spent. Especially as it has signs of wear.

    Still, I can see gilding on most ground dugs.

    I can find in my data 6 well-preserved ground dugs.

    On 3 pieces are definitely gold traces to recognize. On 2 pieces a brown patina points to a former gilding.

    Only one piece shows nothing.

    Interesting topic
    Attached Files

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  • Jeff V
    replied
    Thanks for sharing that great grouping Pavels!

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  • pavels_2005
    replied
    Hi,

    on internet I found a panzer regiment soldier grouping ( sorry for using the pictures...). This grouping includes JFS 75 PAB with grey wreath. The PAB was awarded 5.12.1944 and was possibly denazified later in POW camp.

    We can see that such pieces with grey wreath were awarded and are not only unfinished factory leftovers.

    Any more opinions?

    Best regards
    Pavel
    Attached Files

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  • chrisje110
    replied
    In my honest opinion these where unfinished products, like you see with other awards on the barter/salesman boards

    Leftover stock was sold (or traded) to make some quick money postwar. I don't think the Germans would ever award unfinished products, a grey wreath award is not just attractive at all.

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  • upbeek
    replied
    If the grey wreath badges were supposed to be so then why not do the whole thing grey ? Like it’s camo

    Unfinished hoard in my opinion if there is no gold on the wreath like you say,

    Kind regards Chay

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  • fafnir
    replied
    mistake

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  • fafnir
    replied
    mistake, sorry

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  • pavels_2005
    replied
    OK we have 2 theories:

    1. (Tom) – maybe the regulation changed at the end of war and the suppliers were allowed to supply grey wreath badges. I know people say that also Juncker pieces are known with grey wreaths. Some people also say there are period pictures of soldiers wearing grey wreath badges. Any further evidence?


    2. (Fafnir) – this are left overs from JFS factory. Not finished pieces that were waiting for the last step – coating of the wreath with gold. As I wrote – technologicaly it would be dificult to coat the wreath all over and not touch the silver panzer. Also the area of number box would be dificult. Covering only the number ant not touch the black paint around the number. But who knows.....

    Any more ideas? Or pictures of gold wreath badges?

    Best regards
    Pavel

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  • fafnir
    replied
    Hello Thomas,

    you certainly don't need much gold, but you need something.

    We are talking about the last months of the war.

    The front was close, traffic hubs under constant airstrikes.

    If I had a factory and an order for the badges and I would have everything except the golden color, then I would let the workers build the badges without the last work step instead of building nothing...

    difficult, everything just theories...

    I have also found two pictures with PAB 75 ground dugs, which show (bright) gold plating on my computer.

    Unfortunately, I don't know the origin anymore and I don't know if I can show it here...

    regards Sammli

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  • Thomas Durante
    replied
    Originally posted by fafnir View Post
    Possible explanation:

    Silvering for the tank was still available at JFS.
    I don’t think this was the case. It doesn’t take much gold finish to complete a badge, the finish is very thin and you could probably do 100 badges with a cup full. And especially with a quality maker like JFS, I really don’t think they would complete an order or badges for the government with no gold finish on the wreath, such a blast at disregard for the appearance of a badge would not be acceptable at all, even so late in the war.

    There must be a good and legitimate reason why these left the factory this way.

    Tom

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