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PAB 75 JFS x 2

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    #16
    Here are two that have some left. On the first one I'm not shure if original or not messed with honest speaking. The one from weitze has its original gold finish left.
    Pictures curtesy of Thies and Weitze.
    Attached Files
    Kind regards
    Eric

    ___________
    Always looking for numbered PABs, Panzeruniforms and Panzer Soldbooks

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      #17
      I don’t like the first,
      Second not sure.
      I would go for the thread starters for my choice over these unless I found them in an estate,

      Kind regards Chay
      Interested in collecting historical objects in a gentlemanly fashion
      100% Christian :)))
      Chay-Stevenson@live.co.uk

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        #18
        That first one posted with the very little gold finish is not original finish IMO. If we look at the JFS numbered 75 and 100 the gold finish fades in a very particular way. Horizontal streaking and the finish always starts fading in the low areas first, the exact opposite of what we see here. I am also not sure about the second one but I have doubts on that finish as well.
        Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

        Comment


          #19
          Jeff,
          When you talk about the typical pattern of fading gold, are you referring to the JFS numbered PABs or the GABs? Like Pavel, I haven't seen any on the PABs to establish a pattern, just on the GABs.
          Dale
          I am searching for medals and badges from Gablonz makers.

          Comment


            #20
            Hi Dale, I am referring to the numbered GABs with the pattern to the gold fading. I have never seen a numbered PAB by JFS that exhibits this gold fading pattern.
            Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

            Comment


              #21
              Thanks Jeff, that's what I thought but just wanted to be sure.
              I am searching for medals and badges from Gablonz makers.

              Comment


                #22
                The two badges that started the thread are simply amazing!
                Mint...they almost look new and both 75's, Congratulations!!

                What I find interesting is the way the hinge and pin assemblies
                are attached to these badges, nice design.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Amazing pab, I wish I had such a piece too.

                  Cheers Markus

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                    #24
                    Any more pictures of 75 or 100 JFS PABs with gold wreaths?

                    I mean some typical JFS believable gold finish. The 2 pictures posted are not showing correct finish I think.

                    In fact I didnt see any convincing picture of JFS PAB with gold wreath till now. All such pictures are welcome.

                    Some more theories why the wreaths are grey??? I really dont think the wreaths just faded. You dont find any traces of gold left even if using microscope.

                    Any opinions welcome.

                    Best regards
                    Pavel

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Pavel, I am sure they were manufactured grey without gilding. I think I have seen a wartime picture with a guy wearing a grey wreath badge. I did not save it, maybe someone can repost it if they have it.
                      Looking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Hi,

                        I would like to write something more about that.

                        I had contact with an advanced collector at the beginning of my collector's time. That was about 1990 -92.

                        At that time I was able to admire his gigantic collection. He had several (5?) 75`s and 100`s JFS tank badges. Also one 75' Juncker PAB.

                        He explained to me that the JFS`s with gray wreaths all came from a hoard after the fall of 1989 from the "East".

                        He also had various JFS 75/100 assault badges. All almost new with 100 % gilding and from the same source - from the "East"…

                        Therefore, the pieces of my opinion are probably unfinished booty from Gablonz.

                        Possibly. At the end of the war, these were also spent for lack of gold color. No idea.

                        There are, in my opinion, original gold plated wreaths from JFS, but very rare. Almost as rare as Juncker pieces. Presumably it will be the former, actually lent pieces ...

                        I consider the Weitze JFS 75 to be the original, bright gilding.
                        Take a look at a JFS Destroyer badge. Same gilding ... and take a look at the few golden CCC from JFS…

                        Search the net for original finds out of the ground. I know at least two pieces (JFS 75) in which bright gilding can be seen.

                        In contrast, the JFS 75/100 assault badges have a much darker gold plating. Not really "typical" JFS.

                        Unfortunately, the man died in the nineties. A few years ago, i was not able to establish contact with the relatives. I would like to know where the collection was left ...

                        Please take note. It's just a story and I do not even know if the badges were all real at the time!

                        excuse my bad English. The translator is to blame.


                        Greetings fafnir

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                          #27
                          Hi Fafnir,

                          very interesting story, thanks a lot for sharing!!!

                          Lets continue the discussion:

                          OK I understand the possibility that the PABs with grey wreaths could came from some hoard find maybe directly from JFS company at the end of war. But why the wreath is grey ( without coating ) and the hardware is coated with nice gold finish? Did they coat the hardware extra before crimping it into the wreath? Why? Maybe because the hardware is made from steel and the wreath from zinc and each material requires different coating technology..... But why the silver coated panzer is riveted on the unfinished wreath??? Maybe they planned the coat the wreath as a last technological step..... But how to coat the wreath with gold finish without affecting (destroy or discolor etc.) the silver finish on the panzer??? How to coat the wreath on the places that are covered with the panzer??? It doesnt makes sence to me....

                          By silver 25 and 50 JFS PABs the panzer was coated extra and the wreath was coated extra and the badge was assembled (riveted together) as the last production step. Why would they use totally different technology by 75 and 100 PABs???

                          This is even more strange if we admit that there are also original JFS PABs 75 and 100 with gold wreaths. – and I trust this. My friend sent me pictures of his ground dug JFS 75 PAB (see the pictures). We can clearly see the gold coated wreath. We can see that the gold coating was pretty thick and stable. It was in the ground over 70 years and the coating is still there even after massive cleaning.

                          All other opinions welcome. Also any pictures of JFS 75 or 100 PABs with original gold coating.

                          Best regards
                          Pavel

                          Comment


                            #28
                            pictures
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                              #29
                              1
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Hi guys,

                                With gold finish on the hinge, pin and catch it’s easy to think that there was gold on the wreath originally but it faded. However, we know JFS used good quality zink and excellent quality finishes so why can’t we find any example of a single 75/100 with any trace of gold on the wreath?! Very odd. Even in horrible storage conditions, we should be able to find a few with some finish on the wreath thanks to JFS’ use of high quality zink and finish. So we must conclude these left the factory with no gold finish on the wreath for whatever reason. The institution of the award documents clearly state “golden wreath” so these finishless badges don’t meet the criteria and no maker, especially JFS who was known for their quality products would let something like this leave the factory unless there was a good reason.

                                Tom
                                If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

                                New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
                                [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
                                Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com


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