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WH 25 Years + Oakleaves-for review

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    WH 25 Years + Oakleaves-for review

    I would like to get your opinion about this set: Armed Forces 25 Years Service Cross with Oakleaves.
    Cross is magnetic, marked "C.E.J.". Oakleaves are not magnetic. They came with the little paper package. I do not know, if this package really belongs to the Oakleaves. It has proper size and ageing, but due to the high rank of this decoration I would rather expect some kind of the small case.
    Are there any "Red Flags" apart from the re-soldered prongs to the Oakleaves?
    Thank you in advance for your comments.
    Attached Files

    #2
    The cross is a good one.

    I have one like it marked CEJ.

    I've recently had some thoughts regarding the markers mark.

    I'm thinking it was added at some time to increase the value.

    I can't prove this but yours is the only other one I've seen with this makers mark.

    The Oak Leaves are of the closed type I like.

    The ones I have the splints are squared off.

    I have the pointed splint type but they came on 57 versions of the LS medals.

    Tough to tell if original without having them in hand. Seeing the finish up close helps in determining if they are period or not.

    These were highly burnished when produced and would sparkle when turned to the sunlight.

    Packets I have seen are of the white clear see through type. They are not paper but a material I call celluloid but there must be a proper term for this type of material.

    Class of award and sometimes makers name printed on the packet. Do a search of this forum and you should be able to turn up examples of packs the awards were issued with.

    Wayne
    "As Ye Sow So Shall Ye Reap"

    Comment


      #3
      As Wayne has indicated, oakleaves are the proper closed type....


      ....
      Attached Files
      RonR

      Comment


        #4
        Nice cross

        Nice cross. I like the marking, but have
        not seen it before. Wish it was in my
        collection:-)
        Need info on SS-number 14181- possible non officer

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you very much, Wayne, Ron And Tystgaard, for all your comments and excellent images !!!

          Just to add some historical: I got this set in Germany in mid 1990's.
          As those decorations were issued in the envelopes made of the transparent material, most probably my paper packet does not belong to this convolute and was simple added as a "bonus".
          I also include in this post two photos of the reverse of the Oakleaves. I hope, they will be helpful. Unfortunately, I made them at home under the lamp light. Maybe tomorrow, I will get better results under the daily light.

          Best regards,
          Klaus
          Attached Files

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Klaus!

            No expert but I'm a great fan of these wehrmacht long service awards so for what its worth...

            1) First time I see a maker name on one of these. I know some medals/crosses have a maker number (RK, LDO or even RZM # ) on the medal ring or around the edge but a name is a first for me. I do like the design though (Juncker or not)

            2) Even if the square type seems to be more prevalent I do know that both square & pointed pin types exist based on picts from my archives. However I think the issue is kind of a moot one here because they have obviously been replaced at one point on yours which makes sens because these clips are fragile and the clasps are hard to find.

            3) I'm pretty sure there must be more than 2 variations of those clasps out there but so far I've noticed 2 slightly different variants if I'm not totally "out to lunch"...

            A) Type 1 (like the pinback beauty posted by Ron) There are other slight differences (note the shape of the leaves, the shape of the ribbon etc and in hand this variation is slightly smaller & thinner than type 2) but note the gap between the 2 central oakleaves which is sometime "cut out" (but not on Ron's) as per attached picts at the center of the top row. From what I can see in my archives this type usually has square type pins like Wayne mentions

            B) Type 2 (Like Rons upper right Drapery mount, mine in bottom left row and the bar removed luftwaffe 40 years' front & back pictures have (notwithstading other differences noted above) no gap to speak of between the central oakleaves. I cant see the pins on mine (Ron must be in the same boat!) but the pins are definitly pointed on the Luft bar of the same design. IMO your 40 clasp matches this type/variant but wait for better opinions

            Best

            JC
            Attached Files

            Comment


              #7
              JC,


              Marvelous illustrations and rhetoric!


              Another loose set.....


              .....
              Attached Files
              RonR

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by RonR View Post
                JC,

                Marvelous illustrations and rhetoric!

                .....
                Agree, and thanks to you (and many others) for invaluable info and photo reference over the years, for those of us who came to this hobby a little later and are scrambling to learn! It's very much appreciated.

                Best,

                James

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by RonR View Post
                  JC,


                  Marvelous illustrations and rhetoric!


                  ....


                  .....
                  By comparing the pictures I found out that the ring attached to the cross and the suspension ring for the ribbon of my item are thicker than they are on the other pieces. Also, my suspension ring is completely closed.

                  I fully agree with James and Ron. Excellent analysis of the 40 Years Oakleaves by Jean-Claud. Also, images, comments and observations provided by all participants, made this thread valuable for all the future users.

                  Best regards,
                  Klaus

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by RonR View Post
                    JC,


                    Marvelous illustrations and rhetoric!


                    Another loose set.....


                    .....
                    Thanks for the compliment Ron.

                    Before I retired I used to do specialized stuff (designs, process flows technical reports, analysis etc) in english and did that for a long time. Since 2006, I'm in a french only environment and the forum is my only opportunity I get to use my english so I tend to get too "wordy" sorry...

                    Your wonderful collection never ceases to amaze me: you have everything! Great mint specimen of a 25 year cross with the same identical design as 2 of mine: most likely in tombac (if its the same metal as my 2). Your oakleaf cluster is also the same as mine but has square tipped pins instead of pointed ones...Maybe that feature (pointed or square) is not maker specific as we thought but rather period/time specific like it is on other TR items? For example early flight badges have blunt pins and later ones (by the same makers) have pointed ones probably for convenience/ease of use purposes

                    Anyway not as nice as yours but here are my two 25 year crosses of the same design as yours

                    Best JC
                    Attached Files

                    Comment

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