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CCC during normandy fights

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  • eubank
    replied
    Can this be answered - between qualifying for it/putting in the paperwork and actually receiving the clasp itself ( ...if still alive to) would that all take many weeks ( on average - if there is such a thing) ? Cheers.

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  • naxos
    replied
    Originally posted by refue View Post
    Hardy, you can find the CCC award document of Uffz Hans (Johannes) STODT from 3.FlakRgt 38 on page 28 in Toms CCC book. STODT received the CCC in Bronze on 15.11.1943.
    - thank you so much for pointing this out! I've contributed to Tom's book and own one of the first copies but never noticed that Hans and Johannes were the same man.

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  • lgdsjmi
    replied
    Originally posted by PanzerElite View Post
    very nice fotos !
    any documents/grouping with CCC???
    No, it’s not mine! Sadly

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  • PanzerElite
    replied
    very nice fotos !
    any documents/grouping with CCC???
    Last edited by PanzerElite; 09-13-2019, 04:06 AM.

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  • refue
    replied
    Hardy, you can find the CCC award document of Uffz Hans (Johannes) STODT from 3.FlakRgt 38 on page 28 in Toms CCC book. STODT received the CCC in Bronze on 15.11.1943.

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  • lgdsjmi
    replied


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  • Willi Z.
    replied
    Originally posted by lgdsjmi View Post
    Ok thanks Thomas!
    so what style of pictures were taken widely after June 44?
    A home on leave photo perhaps. The Schützenschnur was generally not worn after 1939, and very rarely on a Fliegerbluse.

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  • PanzerElite
    replied
    this foto is terribly nice !!!
    i hope i can get all documents that what he wears.

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  • lgdsjmi
    replied
    Ok thanks Thomas!
    so what style of pictures were taken widely after June 44?

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  • naxos
    replied
    Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
    Hi guys,

    The earliest award document I have ever been able to find is dated February 15th, 1943 (less than 3 months after the award was instuted).

    Tom


    Tom, do you know which unit issued the award in mid February 43?
    Thanks

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  • Willi Z.
    replied
    Rare, unlikely, but anything is possible. The reality is that FJs wore, and lived in, their smocks during the Normandy campaign. So....we don't have much proof.

    There are always exceptions, so it is a matter of accepting the norms or the rare exception. Reality: not many FJs survived Kreta, Italy, and several years in Russia. Most of the FJ formations in Normandy were composed of new troops raised in late '43 during the expansion period.

    A book I have in German on FJ Pionier Bataillone 5 during the Ardennes offensive presents numerous FJs wearing the CCC.

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  • eubank
    replied
    It would be a rarity then , but to use FJR6 as an example, quite a few NCO's had seen service in Russian battles, and it's 1st Battalion veterans also ( or what was left of it when it came back to France) ...

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  • Thomas Durante
    replied
    Originally posted by naxos View Post
    The CCC was instituted on Nov 25 1942 - it took until late summer 1943 before we see the first awards handed out, even so there were men that fulfilled the 15 close combat day requirement at the time of institution.

    In September 1943 the award statutes were changed to include ground-fighting elements of the Luftwaffe.
    Hi guys,

    The earliest award document I have ever been able to find is dated February 15th, 1943 (less than 3 months after the award was instuted). And as Hardy has correctly stated above, some soldiers were immediately eligible for the Bronze Close Combat Clasp when it was instituted in November 1942 thanks to the retroactive counting of combat days back to the start of the Russian campaign in June 1941. The CCC in Bronze was awarded for 15 combat days, and any soldier with 15 months of continuous service in Russia was elidgible for 15 days right off the bat. But even so, CCC documents dated to 1943 are relatively uncommon to find.

    It is certainly possible for members of the Luftwaffe fighting in France in June/July 1944 could have been awarded the Close Combat Clasp, in particular those that had previously seen action in Russia, where the fighting was regularly quite brutal and in close quarters. If the unit or soldier was not in Russia previously, then I would say it they would not be wearing the close combat clasp.

    Tom

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  • lgdsjmi
    replied
    Originally posted by naxos View Post
    The CCC was instituted on Nov 25 1942 - it took until late summer 1943 before we see the first awards handed out, even so there were men that fulfilled the 15 close combat day requirement at the time of institution.

    On September 28, 1943 the award statutes were changed to include ground-fighting elements of the Luftwaffe (Fallschirmjager, Luftwaffen-Felddivisionen, Flak).

    I have several Close Combat Day lists of Luftwaffe members, Flak, Felddivisionen and Fallschirmjager. All were awarded the CCC beginning in the fall of 1944 - so, I think it unlikely that a Fallschirmjager had the award in early June 1944 but not impossible.

    I have a document for a Flak member with 21 cc days that is dated May 1, 1944 - but I do not have his award document and I don't know the actual award date.
    Ok thanks naxos.
    Best JM

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  • naxos
    replied
    The CCC was instituted on Nov 25 1942 - it took until late summer 1943 before we see the first awards handed out, even so there were men that fulfilled the 15 close combat day requirement at the time of institution.

    In September 1943 the award statutes were changed to include ground-fighting elements of the Luftwaffe.

    I have several Close Combat Day lists of Luftwaffe members, Flak, Felddivisionen and Fallschirmjager. All were awarded the CCC beginning in the fall of 1944 - Although not impossible, I think it unlikely that a Fallschirmjager had the award in early June 1944.

    I have a document for a Flak member with 21 cc days that is dated May 1, 1944 - but I do not have his award document and I don't know the actual award date.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by naxos; 09-11-2019, 11:09 AM.

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