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CCC during normandy fights

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    #16
    Originally posted by Willi Z. View Post
    When in 1944? By the fall of 1944 the paperwork was more likely to be up to date.

    Career FJ, or transferred in? These questions are not simple.


    I am home now and have check the book and that award was made in 19 of october....



    Andy

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      #17
      The CCC was instituted on Nov 25 1942 - it took until late summer 1943 before we see the first awards handed out, even so there were men that fulfilled the 15 close combat day requirement at the time of institution.

      In September 1943 the award statutes were changed to include ground-fighting elements of the Luftwaffe.

      I have several Close Combat Day lists of Luftwaffe members, Flak, Felddivisionen and Fallschirmjager. All were awarded the CCC beginning in the fall of 1944 - Although not impossible, I think it unlikely that a Fallschirmjager had the award in early June 1944.

      I have a document for a Flak member with 21 cc days that is dated May 1, 1944 - but I do not have his award document and I don't know the actual award date.
      Attached Files
      Last edited by naxos; 09-11-2019, 11:09 AM.

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        #18
        Originally posted by naxos View Post
        The CCC was instituted on Nov 25 1942 - it took until late summer 1943 before we see the first awards handed out, even so there were men that fulfilled the 15 close combat day requirement at the time of institution.

        On September 28, 1943 the award statutes were changed to include ground-fighting elements of the Luftwaffe (Fallschirmjager, Luftwaffen-Felddivisionen, Flak).

        I have several Close Combat Day lists of Luftwaffe members, Flak, Felddivisionen and Fallschirmjager. All were awarded the CCC beginning in the fall of 1944 - so, I think it unlikely that a Fallschirmjager had the award in early June 1944 but not impossible.

        I have a document for a Flak member with 21 cc days that is dated May 1, 1944 - but I do not have his award document and I don't know the actual award date.
        Ok thanks naxos.
        Best JM

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          #19
          Originally posted by naxos View Post
          The CCC was instituted on Nov 25 1942 - it took until late summer 1943 before we see the first awards handed out, even so there were men that fulfilled the 15 close combat day requirement at the time of institution.

          In September 1943 the award statutes were changed to include ground-fighting elements of the Luftwaffe.
          Hi guys,

          The earliest award document I have ever been able to find is dated February 15th, 1943 (less than 3 months after the award was instuted). And as Hardy has correctly stated above, some soldiers were immediately eligible for the Bronze Close Combat Clasp when it was instituted in November 1942 thanks to the retroactive counting of combat days back to the start of the Russian campaign in June 1941. The CCC in Bronze was awarded for 15 combat days, and any soldier with 15 months of continuous service in Russia was elidgible for 15 days right off the bat. But even so, CCC documents dated to 1943 are relatively uncommon to find.

          It is certainly possible for members of the Luftwaffe fighting in France in June/July 1944 could have been awarded the Close Combat Clasp, in particular those that had previously seen action in Russia, where the fighting was regularly quite brutal and in close quarters. If the unit or soldier was not in Russia previously, then I would say it they would not be wearing the close combat clasp.

          Tom
          If it doesn't have a hinge and catch, I'm not interested......well, maybe a little

          New Book - The German Close Combat Clasp of World War II
          [/SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
          Available Now - tmdurante@gmail.com

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            #20
            It would be a rarity then , but to use FJR6 as an example, quite a few NCO's had seen service in Russian battles, and it's 1st Battalion veterans also ( or what was left of it when it came back to France) ...

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              #21
              Rare, unlikely, but anything is possible. The reality is that FJs wore, and lived in, their smocks during the Normandy campaign. So....we don't have much proof.

              There are always exceptions, so it is a matter of accepting the norms or the rare exception. Reality: not many FJs survived Kreta, Italy, and several years in Russia. Most of the FJ formations in Normandy were composed of new troops raised in late '43 during the expansion period.

              A book I have in German on FJ Pionier Bataillone 5 during the Ardennes offensive presents numerous FJs wearing the CCC.
              Willi

              Preußens Gloria!

              sigpic

              Sapere aude

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                #22
                Originally posted by Thomas Durante View Post
                Hi guys,

                The earliest award document I have ever been able to find is dated February 15th, 1943 (less than 3 months after the award was instuted).

                Tom


                Tom, do you know which unit issued the award in mid February 43?
                Thanks

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                  #23
                  Ok thanks Thomas!
                  so what style of pictures were taken widely after June 44?

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                    #24
                    this foto is terribly nice !!!
                    i hope i can get all documents that what he wears.
                    sigpic

                    looking for SS Hohenstaufen and Frundsberg Documents or Soldbuch !

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by lgdsjmi View Post
                      Ok thanks Thomas!
                      so what style of pictures were taken widely after June 44?
                      A home on leave photo perhaps. The Schützenschnur was generally not worn after 1939, and very rarely on a Fliegerbluse.
                      Willi

                      Preußens Gloria!

                      sigpic

                      Sapere aude

                      Comment


                        #26


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                          #27
                          Hardy, you can find the CCC award document of Uffz Hans (Johannes) STODT from 3.FlakRgt 38 on page 28 in Toms CCC book. STODT received the CCC in Bronze on 15.11.1943.

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                            #28
                            very nice fotos !
                            any documents/grouping with CCC???
                            Last edited by PanzerElite; 09-13-2019, 04:06 AM.
                            sigpic

                            looking for SS Hohenstaufen and Frundsberg Documents or Soldbuch !

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by PanzerElite View Post
                              very nice fotos !
                              any documents/grouping with CCC???
                              No, it’s not mine! Sadly

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by refue View Post
                                Hardy, you can find the CCC award document of Uffz Hans (Johannes) STODT from 3.FlakRgt 38 on page 28 in Toms CCC book. STODT received the CCC in Bronze on 15.11.1943.
                                - thank you so much for pointing this out! I've contributed to Tom's book and own one of the first copies but never noticed that Hans and Johannes were the same man.

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