Billy Kramer


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knowing the subject

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    knowing the subject


    IMHO specializing i one of the best things a collector can do. Knowing what you want stikking towards that goal is very important. I for one am a glider nuts and it is besides collecting everything from these rare troops i have set a own goal (unreachable but nevertheles) to have a flight log from a glider pilot to document the assualt (and other) missions.

    In the last Detlev Niemann update there was offered a small hidden treasure and due to the name i knew almost exactly that this was a winner.

    Here is the picture as it was offered at Niemann's update :

    To be continued ....
    Attached Files
    my collectionfield : German glider pilots

    the arrival


    I was lucky to be able to aquire the pictured flightlogs and was in tension to check out if i was correct in obtaining it.

    The flightlogs did arrive and yes => the treasure was true (and the specializing did bear its fruits once again!!!

    The offered flight logs where the original flightlogs from a Kreta Glider pilot and here is the entry

    This is a first for me for the Crete mission and a very rare one in that, needles to say that i am once again a very happy collector. I am curious to see iff you guys are able to.

    1) read what is written
    2) know with the given info to wich taskforce this glider did belong

    Cordial greetings,
    Attached Files
    my collectionfield : German glider pilots



      This is a nice entry.

      1) Einsatzflug (combat flight)
      2) Departure : Athen - Eleusis
      3) Mission is related to KOCH if I am reading correctly.

      My opinion is Gruppe West- Maleme - Unit is Stab./LLG 1 in charge of the Stab.I./LL-Sturm-Rgt.



        knowing the subject

        Hi JYN,

        Thank you for the comment, i wont give it directly away iff you are correct or not.

        However i am prepared to give one more hint. From this glider task force only 44 % of the glider pilots did survive the mission. So in short 66 % was killed in action. (With the book of JYN and a few otehr sources people should be able to find it)

        I would love to see a few more of the crete lovers break there head on this one and as more answers, etc ... do come i will give more hints

        Cordial greetings,
        my collectionfield : German glider pilots


          Stijn, I don't know anything about your area of collecting but I will agree with you that the details are what makes collecting this stuff fun. Nice find.


            a extra


            Thank you for the reply, and indeed => details are everything + know what you are after, study untill your brain hurts, etc ...

            Here is a extra detail that might shed some light on where this one did land + what unit he was attached

            Cordial greetings,

            ps over 120 lookers and only 2 replys?, Crete is no longer of interest it seems
            Attached Files
            my collectionfield : German glider pilots



              KOCH SMG Gruppe !

              Eaaaasy !

              Last edited by JYN; 10-29-2005, 10:41 AM.


                Hello Stijn,

                Why do you insist in upsetting poor Ian so?
                Esse Quam Videri


                  Well this was not the one which was towed by this JU 52 of the 8./LLG 1 but it is a nice entry too...


                    Giday Stijn and others,

                    Firstly, congratulations Stijn. you have indeed been most fortunate.

                    Your comments, namely that you must know your subject well are of course quite true. Last weekend I spotted a group of documents that belonged to a member of Sturmgruppe Stahl. The Jäger's name was one I had recognised from previous correspondence I had received from another member of Sturmgruppe Stahl. (I should also mention that I carry with me at all times my list of members of Sturmabteilung Koch and my list of combat glider pilots.)

                    Would I be correct in saying that the glider pilot was assigned to the 1st Kompanie of the Luftlande Sturm Regiment?

                    Best wishes,


                    P.S. I like Jonnie's comments. Why are you so cruel!


                      If I was cruel cruel too, I will say that you missed a Soldbuch from the 1./LL-Sturm-Rgt. 1. on Estand... but I am not...


                        Giday everyone,

                        Jean-Yves, your comments are not helping matters!

                        Instead of going to work I think I might go back to bed!

                        Best wishes,



                          Giday everyone,

                          Stijn's glider pilot was indeed assigned to the 1st Kompanie of the Luftlande Sturm Regiment.

                          At 4.15 am on the morning of 20 May 1941, 81 Jäger of
                          the 1st Kompanie of the Luftlande Sturm Regiment,
                          under the command of Oberleutnant Alfred Genz, took
                          off in nine gliders from Tanagra. Their mission was
                          to capture and subsequently destroy an AA battery that
                          was situated to the south of Chania.

                          The gliders when they arrived over the target were
                          approximately 500 meters too high necessitating that
                          they circle over the battery. Unfortunately the
                          gliders had aleady been spotted by the AA battery
                          which commenced firing at the gliders during their
                          approach over the coast.

                          Two of the gliders crashed, including the glider carrying Sigfried Fickel, (Fickel previously had been a member of Sturmgruppe Stahl). Amazingly Fickel survived his glider crashing in to the sea and was subsequently rescued by a passing trawler.

                          Eventually the AA battery fell to the Fallschirmjäger,
                          who then retreated south under the guidance of their
                          commander, Oberleutnant Genz.

                          I expect that Stijn may wish to add to what I have said above.

                          Best wishes,



                            We have a winner


                            Thank you very much gents for the comments, and yes we have a winner.

                            " Would I be correct in saying that the glider pilot was assigned to the 1st Kompanie of the Luftlande Sturm Regiment? " => this is 100 % correct, easy one iff you know your sources , congratulations Ian !!!

                            More on the subject real soon ...

                            @ JYN : very nice entry

                            @ John & Ian : AM i cruel ?

                            Cordial greetings,
                            my collectionfield : German glider pilots





                              As Ian did point out the mission objectives already, i can add the following :

                              80 Para's where devided amongst 9 gliders wich where flewn by the following glider pilots:

                              LS 1 : Olt. Werner
                              LS 2 : Ogefr. Kolleger
                              LS 3 : Ogefr. Feuerrohr (this is his Flugbuch shown)
                              LS 4 : Uffz. Brinkmann (KIA during this mission)
                              LS 5 : Gefr. Baasch (KIA during this mission)
                              LS 6 : Uffz. Kr******246;sche
                              LS 7 : Olt. Kellner (KIA during this mission)
                              LS 8 : Uffz. Klimke (KIA during this mission)
                              LS 9 : Uffz. Schulze (KIA during this mission)

                              So this brings 5 KIA's glider pilots from the 9 of this squad. A few pilots are also named in the excellent book of our friend JYN (starting page 98), there you can read also a bit more.

                              I can also add a few lines about the KIA Olt. Kellner, will report later on that one.

                              Keep the info comming and please post your Flugbuch entry's (towing machines as glider planes alike) in this thread !!!

                              Cordial greetings,

                              ps: to soften cruelty => iff Ian does ever visit Belgium he is invited to have a look at a few my items and feel and see them in the real life
                              Last edited by Stijn David; 10-28-2005, 05:49 AM.
                              my collectionfield : German glider pilots



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