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    Help with dog tag markings.

    I know this will be difficult without any photos but i have been offered a tag purporting to be from Waffen SS. The marking of the unit is;

    4 / SS Pz. A.R.11

    Not being too knowledgeable about tags could anyone tell me what this unit corresponds to. I hope that this is the correct thread as i wasn,t sure whether to put it in the order of battle / unit info thread.

    Cheers,
    DAVID

    #2
    Originally posted by tazpants
    4 / SS Pz. A.R.11
    4 Kompanie, SS Panzer Artillerie Regiment 11

    http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...SS/11SSPGD.htm

    Not sure the Artillerie unit had the Panzer designation though!!!! "Nordland" was a Panzer Grenadier Division.

    /Ian
    Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

    Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Ian,

      I,ll try and post a photo of the item as i definately need a bit of guidance on this one. Something just doesn,t feel right about it.

      Just tried but the file is too large.......


      Originally posted by Ian Jewison
      4 Kompanie, SS Panzer Artillerie Regiment 11

      http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...SS/11SSPGD.htm

      Not sure the Artillerie unit had the Panzer designation though!!!! "Nordland" was a Panzer Grenadier Division.

      /Ian

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Ian Jewison
        4 Kompanie, SS Panzer Artillerie Regiment 11
        Oopps...that should read 4 Batterie and not Kompanie.

        Try make your image 700 x 750 pixels.
        Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

        Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

        Comment


          #5
          Will try a link.http://www.sc-1.co.uk/centurion/view...h=1390a&phqu=2

          Hopefully that will work.



          Originally posted by tazpants
          Thanks Ian,

          I,ll try and post a photo of the item as i definately need a bit of guidance on this one. Something just doesn,t feel right about it.

          Just tried but the file is too large.......

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Taz,

            That really is an interesting disc- just from the photo, I don't see anything suspicious about it, and the fact that it has the SS-Soldbuch to confirm the markings (assuming the document is authentic), surely suggests it's good. Ian is right though- references I have to hand say that while the 11. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Divivision "Nordland" did include SS-Artillerie-Regiment 11, there's no mention of it ever being armored. I have just done a quick Google search and found this: http://www.geocities.com/~orion47/NO...rway-W-SS.html Check the second listing"BAKKEN, Knut T." Surely, independent evidence that late in the war, SS-Artillerie-Regiment 11 was armored afterall...

            Matt

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks Matt,
              I totally agree. I,m willing to take a chance on this one as the guy has promised to refund me fully should i change my mind. Having purchased from him before i know he is as good as his word. The other thing that worried me was the fact he was numbered 1 on his tag. I reckoned that surely a faker would have gone for a higher, less conspicuous number. Once i get the items i will post them in more detail for your guidance.
              Without the book, i wouldn,t have looked twice at it but if the soldbuch is good ( still very much an if ) then it will be a goodie.

              Cheers,
              DAVID


              Originally posted by Matt L
              Hi Taz,

              That really is an interesting disc- just from the photo, I don't see anything suspicious about it, and the fact that it has the SS-Soldbuch to confirm the markings (assuming the document is authentic), surely suggests it's good. Ian is right though- references I have to hand say that while the 11. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Divivision "Nordland" did include SS-Artillerie-Regiment 11, there's no mention of it ever being armored. Panzer-Artillerie-Regimenter are usually associated with Panzer-Divisionen- not with Panzergrenadier-Divisionen. Even if it were only that one Batterie that was armored, the unit name would still remain SS-Artillerie-Regiment 11. As I've already said once this morning, a unit that doesn't appear to have existed is usually proof of a fake, but again in the case of this disc, the object itself appears just fine and the documentary evidence sure makes it appear authentic...

              Matt

              Comment


                #8
                Hi David,

                I changed and corrected my last posting before you finished yours- have a look

                Matt

                Comment


                  #9
                  Nice one Matt. Extra evidence is always appreciated.

                  Originally posted by Matt L
                  Hi David,

                  I changed and corrected my last posting before you finished yours- have a look

                  Matt

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hi, to quote Nafziger regarding the Artillery Regiment, "The Artillery Regiment was to reequip the first battalion with two six gun batteries of 105mm Wespe and one six gun battery of 150mm Hummels" no mention of date though.

                    Cheers
                    Ian
                    Last edited by Ian Thomson; 03-03-2005, 04:41 AM. Reason: Duh, unable to tell difference between Tessin/Nafziger

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tazpants
                      Thanks Matt,
                      I totally agree. I,m willing to take a chance on this one as the guy has promised to refund me fully should i change my mind. Having purchased from him before i know he is as good as his word. The other thing that worried me was the fact he was numbered 1 on his tag. I reckoned that surely a faker would have gone for a higher, less conspicuous number. Once i get the items i will post them in more detail for your guidance.
                      Without the book, i wouldn,t have looked twice at it but if the soldbuch is good ( still very much an if ) then it will be a goodie.

                      Cheers,
                      DAVID
                      I have seen this with two dealers ....Brian or Alan?

                      There was not many entries in the Soldbuch and if I remember correctly he was discharged end of 1943!

                      If you do a search on the internet there are pages that refer to it being Pz.Art.Rgt. but some only Art.Rgt..........I do actually have the unit history somewhere and will see what that says....My uncle served with SS Pz.Gren.Rgt. 24 of the same Division....

                      /Ian
                      Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

                      Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I'l be very curious to hear what the unit history says- if an SS-Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment follows the same basic structure as a Heer one, it would have 1 Abteilung of self-propelled guns (3 Batterien), 1 Abteilung of 10,5cm Feldhaubitzen (2 Batterien) and 1 Abteilung of heavy weapons (2 Batterien of 15cm Feldhaubitzen, and 1 Batterie of 10cm Kanonen). Since the soldier in question is from the 4. Batterie (presumably II. Abteilung), he likely crewed one of the towed standard artillery pieces rather than one of the self-propelled guns.

                        Matt

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Matt,

                          Does this ring any bells for you? I have a disc, stamped much like (but not identical) David's: 4/ PZ. A.R. 38. One we have not been able to come to any agreement upon.

                          There is also no mention of a Pz.A.R. 38, but there is mention of A.R.38.

                          While not being SS, I still do see some simularities between the two - what do you think?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi again guys,

                            Ian, i would be very interested to read the unit history if you come across it. This is what i love about this "hobby", you learn new things everyday and you can never know too much.
                            By the way, the guy i am buying this from is neither Brian or Alan but if its the same stuff i guess its moved around a bit.
                            Hope to post some scans once it arrives.
                            Cheers,
                            DAVID


                            Originally posted by Chris Stewart
                            Matt,

                            Does this ring any bells for you? I have a disc, stamped much like (but not identical) David's: 4/ PZ. A.R. 38. One we have not been able to come to any agreement upon.

                            There is also no mention of a Pz.A.R. 38, but there is mention of A.R.38.

                            While not being SS, I still do see some simularities between the two - what do you think?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by tazpants View Post
                              I know this will be difficult without any photos but i have been offered a tag purporting to be from Waffen SS. The marking of the unit is;

                              4 / SS Pz. A.R.11

                              Not being too knowledgeable about tags could anyone tell me what this unit corresponds to. I hope that this is the correct thread as i wasn,t sure whether to put it in the order of battle / unit info thread.

                              Cheers,
                              DAVID

                              This is probably in the wrong spot, so Mods feel free to put it in the right spot.
                              I have a Waffen SS Division Dog Tag and I would like to display the tag.

                              Or the piece of cheap TIN !
                              I live in Buenos Aires and we all know that Juan Peron was a very good friend of "Ours!"
                              So much so that he finally Declared War against Germany after the WAR was OVER ! There are massive collections of Illegal NAZI Regalia in this country but you can't own them !

                              Recently the absolute most beautiful and most interesting collection was discovered in a hidden place i someone's private residence !

                              There were things that I have never ever seen in my entire life and I thought I had seen everything ! Even a Box of different colored and types of EYES to check against other colors and the device that measures Craniums ! All in like new condition and Priceless ! Confiscated !

                              I have been involved in collecting these things since I was 11 years old in the 70's at the glorious Texas Gun Shows every weekend traveling fom town to town and my Father ran a Weapons and Wax Museum so back then there was a huge amount of extremely inexpensive and very desirable items everywhere !

                              I concentrated on Nazi Dress Daggers mostly and at 14 I had a Killer Collection because I always TRADED up from a good piece to a perfect piece ! And they were almost FREE !

                              Unfortunately I never obtained an S.S Damascus Blade Chained Presentation Dagger ! Now almost unobtainable for me right now !

                              And the Absolute "Holy Grail!" A Field Marshal's BATON !

                              Anyway, for all that I should know I am unhappily certain that the Dog Tag is a REPLICA !

                              But is it a really bad one in terms of numbers and markings ? Or just Garbage for almost Gratis so I don't mind the money misspent !

                              Muchas Gracias Amigos !

                              Thank you findly for your time and expertise and patience for allowing me to rant !

                              I sincerely apologize for the bad pictures but the following information is on the TAGS :
                              One side:

                              1.PZ.JAG.E.AB7.
                              5221

                              Obverse :
                              Waffen S.S

                              I definitely DON'T have very high hopes but it's a Conversation piece and I can always wear it !

                              Muchas Gracias Fellow Hobbyist !
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