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The METZ 1944 Cuff Title

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    Hi, I have a copy. Should I look up something?
    BR


    Originally posted by Lothringer1944 View Post
    Hello,

    A document of the Fahnenjunkerschule VI from Metz.
    To the american from WAF, do you have an access to this document : ?

    https://www.loc.gov/manuscripts/?all...t:metz&st=list

    Thanks in advance

    Regards

    Comment


      Additional photo Metz Soldbuch

      Metz
      Attached Files

      Comment


        Originally posted by Jochen1000 View Post
        Also interesting, however, is the question if members of that school were virtually the only soldiers who ever wore that cufftitle. [...]
        If I were a collector of cufftitles, I would keep in mind the possibility that the school was virtually the only place where those cufftitles were
        ever used.
        The "Metz 1944" was a combat award and also a traditional decoration. This is written in the original decree.
        Furthermore there are pictures showing soldiers wearing that CT also out of the school exactly as they wore Afrika and Kreta cufftitles. Of couse many wore it as a traditional cufftitle.

        My books:


        - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
        - THE SS TK RING
        - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
        - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
        - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

        and more!


        sigpic

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          Originally posted by Antonio Scapini View Post

          The "Metz 1944" was a combat award and also a traditional decoration. This is written in the original decree.
          Furthermore there are pictures showing soldiers wearing that CT also out of the school exactly as they wore Afrika and Kreta cufftitles. Of couse many wore it as a traditional cufftitle.
          So if I understand this right then you are also saying that it was worn as a traditional cufftitle at the school and there are some pictures of soldiers wearing it outside of the school (but possibly still connected to the school). But there seem to be no award documents to participants of the actual combat and also no legitimate soldbuch/wehrpass entries? At least I haven't seen any in all those years, which I find weird considering that they were so proud of their small victory at Metz. Have you seen any of those?

          Comment


            Many of the school students played a big role in Metz defence, so they were awarded for their fighting.
            All the awards must pass through von Siegroth, that was awarded with the Knight's Cross on 18 October 1944 as commander of the Kampfgruppe of the Fahnenjunker-Schule VI of Metz, its cufftitle was a "Kampfabzeichen" not "Traditionsabzeichen", and I also remember an entry in the Soldbuch of a soldier exactly as "Kampfabzeichen" (battle award).
            I also have a picture of an officer wearing the CT, but he had nothing in common with the Schule.
            Cufftitles are extremely rare, documents are almost impossible to find nowadays.

            My books:


            - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
            - THE SS TK RING
            - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
            - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
            - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

            and more!


            sigpic

            Comment


              Originally posted by Antonio Scapini View Post
              Many of the school students played a big role in Metz defence, so they were awarded for their fighting.
              I think the correct term should be: Many of the school students played a big role in Metz defence, so they should have been awarded for their fighting - but for some reason they were not.
              The fact that an expert like you remembers one entry in a soldbuch and has one picture of an officer wearing the cufftitle sais it all.

              Anyway, who knows the absolute truth? And let's see how many different versions of that cufftitle will eventually be considered original, keeping in mind that even someone like you has just one single foto of an officer wearing one (which would basically verify the existence of one version).

              Comment


                Actually we have some pictures of the Metz CT in wear... Not only one. I spoke about the one I have.
                And we have known original different patterns linked to directly veteran acquisitions (about this: do you think we have period pictures for all the different types and makers of badges and other awards? I'm sorry, bu the answer is no, we haven't. I could list tens and tens of examples).

                Another point: regulation is written black on white.
                And one "Kampfabzeichen" registered in a personal document is enough to dismiss the statement that the CT was only a traditional cufftitle. This is the truth, these are facts, evidences.
                Its rarity is due to the late institution, if an item is very, very rare, a document of that item is almost impossible to find. But when it surfaces, then you have your answer.
                I know of 3 documents, and one of them is a "battle award"; if math is not an opinion, it means 33,3% of the documents report the Metz CT was a battle award. Really not a bad %.

                But if you prefere to think that it was only a traditional cufftitle and remove some real proofs, like criteria, entries, etc etc, I have nothing more to add.

                My books:


                - THE WEHRPAß & SOLDBUCH OF THE WH
                - THE SS TK RING
                - THE ITALIAN-GERMAN MEDAL
                - THE ANTI PARTISAN BADGE
                - THE AWARDS OF THE LW

                and more!


                sigpic

                Comment

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