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ETO officers Camo M1 helmet

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    #61
    Originally posted by ffuries View Post
    A little off topic per se, but helmet related. I maintained aircrew flight helmets for 23 years in the Air Force.

    Some helmets had filthy chin and nape pads and clean liner covers. Some had nasty liner covers and clean nape and chin pads. Some had both nasty chin and nape pads and liner covers, and some all were clean, or some just either the nape or chin pad but not both.

    There is no set down and dirty rules as to how helmets get dirty. Everyone sweats differently, handles their helmet differently, everyone's body has a greasy and/or non greasy part. Heck just a few days of no showering and your hair starts to get really greasy, imagine how nasty it is when you're sweaty, grimy and un-showered for days or weeks.

    As for our steel pots, I had co-workers who's liner webbing and chin strap was gross, or one was dirty and one not. My personal M1 helmet I was constantly replacing the nape strap it was dirtiest part of my helmet. Why beats me, in the 5 years I wore it before going to the Kevlar helmet. I replaced the leather sweat band twice, and the nape strap at least once a year. My chin strap stayed clean because I had it connected over the helmet rim and never used it.

    Oh and one more thing, how and where was the helmet stored after the war.....dirty, grimy helmet stored in less than ideal conditions doesn't make for a text book fresh helmet.

    I like the helmet and see no issues with it.......Just my two cents, my opinion based on my experience. I'll get off my opinionated soap box and go back to my corner and lurk.........
    Very interesting and helpful, thank you.
    When you go home
    Tell them for us and say
    For your tomorrow
    We gave our today

    --Inscription in the 5th Marine Division cemetery,
    Iwo Jima 1945

    Comment


      #62
      To be honest, before I even viewed pictures of this helmet I am skeptical of any "camo" M-1's. I always approach these and unit painted helmets as guilty unless proven innocent. It's not a fair standard for the poster. The reason is that it is very inexpensive to take a plain M-1 and dress it up to your desire. The market is flooded with bogus M-1's. That's my bias up front.

      I like that the base helmet is an early type so if the piece is insincere at least they spent more money at the start. A plain early helmet like this is now in the $300 plus range. What I don't like about this helmet is that it looks like the soldier took it off his head yesterday. Is this what a sweaty/oily helmet looks like after 75 plus years? Not in my experience.

      Comment


        #63
        "...it looks like the soldier took it off his head yesterday. Is this what a sweaty/oily helmet looks like after 75 plus years? Not in my experience."
        In my experience, that is exactly how a helmet looks that was dropped someplace in a garage or an attic or a basement and was left there for 20 or 30 years or more. I use "20 years" as a starting point because that is when I started collecting: in the 1960's, twenty years after the end of the Second World War. My father and Uncles were all veterans. Virtually every man on the street where I grew up was a World War II veteran, most all of them with gear of some kind in the house. My father sometimes used a WII entrenching tool to dig the vegetable garden. Otherwise he kept it in the trunk of the car in case he got stuck in the snow. The fellow across the street had his Army Air Force A-2 flight jacket hanging in his garage. Another neighbor used the German paratrooper gravity knife that he had brought home to dig weeds out of his lawn. Things that were brought home but not used got relegated to the attic or the basement or the tool shed and, barring some unforeseen situation, they looked (and would remain looking) little different then they had in 1945. When I was talking to my neighbors then, or speaking with other veterans (and they were everywhere; my barber as a kid was a First Infantry Division veteran of Omaha Beach), I wish that I could have collected a nickel for everything they told me that today would cause a collector to immediately shout "They never did that!". To actually see a helmet called into question on the basis of a knot having been tied in the chin strap just astonishes me. I very much regret that I am now seeing what I have long expected: the deterioration of the hobby, not because of fakes, but because of the misconceptions and misinformation that have been spawned by the fact that so few collectors today actually obtained material from, and spoke with, the veterans. An M1 combat helmet denigrated with comments about "hair gel"??? Unbelievable.

        Comment


          #64
          And I will add this off-topic note, just because I expect that one or two of you will be wondering: Yes, I DID try to get my neighbor to give me the German paratrooper gravity knife. In fact, I offered to buy him a brand new set of gardening tools at the local hardware and give them to him for the knife. It didn't work. He kept the gravity knife; and the German boot knife that he had brought home; and the two Third Reich flags that he had; and his service Colt .45 pistol (he had been an infantry officer and he got to keep it); and the Russian Tokarev pistol that he had taken from a German officer who had taken it from a Russian officer. He did, however, give me several German shoulder straps and a 1939 black Wound Badge, which I still have.

          Comment


            #65
            As I've only been collecting since the 1970's you have more experience. I was careful to limit my comment to "my experience". We clearly have different experience. If you say this is what a helmet looks like after sitting around 20 or 30 years then fine (I don't) and now we are talking over 75 years ago. I stand by my comment and respect yours. If there is a deterioration of the hobby it IS because of the fakes and crooks trying to make a quick buck and on top of the sacrifice of too many young men. If the poster is thrilled with his helmet then that's all that matters.

            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by p-59a View Post
              Nice magnification, kind of looks like some post modern art, but it does nothing for your helmet. You kind of missed a part of what I was saying. Now check this, the white paint in the wrinkles of that leadership stripe are white, very white. The other white areas have "patina" or whatever makes white look dirty. I call it dirt, but those areas do not. The very areas were dirt normally collects is very clean and a very bright white. Glad you admit that area was repainted even if you differ on why it was repainted.
              You should never spend money on a helmet, this is an absolute "one-looker" original and gorgeous helmet!
              www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com

              sigpic

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by dhcoleterracina View Post
                As I've only been collecting since the 1970's you have more experience. I was careful to limit my comment to "my experience". We clearly have different experience. If you say this is what a helmet looks like after sitting around 20 or 30 years then fine (I don't) and now we are talking over 75 years ago. I stand by my comment and respect yours. If there is a deterioration of the hobby it IS because of the fakes and crooks trying to make a quick buck and on top of the sacrifice of too many young men. If the poster is thrilled with his helmet then that's all that matters.

                Looking forward to seeing your M1 helmet collection and P5na’s when you post it up

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by BobI View Post

                  You should never spend money on a helmet, this is an absolute "one-looker" original and gorgeous helmet!
                  We will never know for sure. Remember the member Jkash on the USmilitariaforum ? He turned out to have fake helmets as well while everybody said they look like one lookers and the real thing. When I saw something suspicious they all made fun of me including that cocky moderator called ' Bugme ' they all look like fools now. Guess what they burnt their fingers not me so being a 'seasoned collector ' doesnt always mean someone can see a real helmet. About this helmet I have no clue though but I think it looks good I would approach this with caution as well and maybe check the paint a little closer.
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Bill D. View Post
                    To actually see a helmet called into question on the basis of a knot having been tied in the chin strap just astonishes me.
                    Have to agree, knot could have been tied at any time during its life, even postwar for some reason but that one fact should not bring the whole helmet into question for sure

                    p.s. and the link provided by Aikejamesusa is just as astonishing as after getting a refund he wants an opinion if he should send the lid back, morals eh Talk about having your cake and eating it

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Aikejamesusa View Post

                      We will never know for sure. Remember the member Jkash on the USmilitariaforum ? He turned out to have fake helmets as well while everybody said they look like one lookers and the real thing. When I saw something suspicious they all made fun of me including that cocky moderator called ' Bugme ' they all look like fools now. Guess what they burnt their fingers not me so being a 'seasoned collector ' doesnt always mean someone can see a real helmet. About this helmet I have no clue though but I think it looks good I would approach this with caution as well and maybe check the paint a little closer.
                      Thanks for your reply
                      unfortunately I was one of Jamie’s victims who didn’t receive a cent back !!! Not a penny a few years back.
                      Let me tell you, there is no one that looks at paint more than me in such micro detail. Also the paint nor the liner have never been in question.
                      You have to be burned to become better, and you have to actually put yourself in the trenches and collect helmets to fully understand them and what to
                      Look for. This also includes all the pages of observations made by people who only collect with a computer screen and have no hands on experience because they are too scared to actually collect something.
                      This was not aimed at any anyone specific but they know who they are.

                      This thread was not a real or not thread it’s me showing this forum my helmet.
                      And as spoken on before as collectors we need to be aware of how we collect and also how we present ourselves on others threads regarding their collections. I didn’t post this to go through days of BS from a very select few based on some of the silliest and mundane arguments heard.
                      Some here have shown some real flaws on this thread, with no actual solid arguments. Let alone judging a helmet on a tied knot and seeing a quarter of a liner and making assumptions whiteout seeing the actual liner in it’s entirety.
                      That’s just not how collecting is done and is the complete wrong mindset if looking to start.

                      I’m not saying it’s not a minefield out there, and not to be careful, I’ve been burnt. Remember once bitten twice shy ! My research has been done and im happy








                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Leo2018 View Post

                        Thanks for your reply
                        unfortunately I was one of Jamie’s victims who didn’t receive a cent back !!! Not a penny a few years back.
                        Let me tell you, there is no one that looks at paint more than me in such micro detail. Also the paint nor the liner have never been in question.
                        You have to be burned to become better, and you have to actually put yourself in the trenches and collect helmets to fully understand them and what to
                        Look for. This also includes all the pages of observations made by people who only collect with a computer screen and have no hands on experience because they are too scared to actually collect something.
                        This was not aimed at any anyone specific but they know who they are.

                        This thread was not a real or not thread it’s me showing this forum my helmet.
                        And as spoken on before as collectors we need to be aware of how we collect and also how we present ourselves on others threads regarding their collections. I didn’t post this to go through days of BS from a very select few based on some of the silliest and mundane arguments heard.
                        Some here have shown some real flaws on this thread, with no actual solid arguments. Let alone judging a helmet on a tied knot and seeing a quarter of a liner and making assumptions whiteout seeing the actual liner in it’s entirety.
                        That’s just not how collecting is done and is the complete wrong mindset if looking to start.

                        I’m not saying it’s not a minefield out there, and not to be careful, I’ve been burnt. Remember once bitten twice shy ! My research has been done and im happy







                        The problem starts with collectors believing a seasoned collector. For example Jkash everyone believed that he was a seasoned m1 helmet collector. Nobody questioned his helmets and thought all were good only because he was a ' seasoned ' collector and known guy. I knew something wasnt right since all his helmet seem to look kinda aged the same. He probably have some good ones laying ofcourse he dont sell and was probably using his knowledge from collecting helmets to create the best replicas on the market. But to be honest when you look at ETO and PTO era pictures you almost never see painted helmets. They ofcourse exist but painted helmets are so sought after and rare. Most probably also were repainted after the war or the paint was removed. I would only buy painted helmets from the veteran or his family and possibly relic hunters i know that actually found them in the ground. Its a too harsh topic to gamble your money on.

                        i know its not a real or not just giving my opinion about the helmet. I think this one has a chance. I like the fact the made a knot in the chinstrap.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Aikejamesusa View Post

                          The problem starts with collectors believing a seasoned collector. For example Jkash everyone believed that he was a seasoned m1 helmet collector. Nobody questioned his helmets and thought all were good only because he was a ' seasoned ' collector and known guy. I knew something wasnt right since all his helmet seem to look kinda aged the same. He probably have some good ones laying ofcourse he dont sell and was probably using his knowledge from collecting helmets to create the best replicas on the market. But to be honest when you look at ETO and PTO era pictures you almost never see painted helmets. They ofcourse exist but painted helmets are so sought after and rare. Most probably also were repainted after the war or the paint was removed. I would only buy painted helmets from the veteran or his family and possibly relic hunters i know that actually found them in the ground. Its a too harsh topic to gamble your money on.

                          i know its not a real or not just giving my opinion about the helmet. I think this one has a chance. I like the fact the made a knot in the chinstrap.
                          Thankyou and I respect that opinion

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Leo, here's a few of mine, others in the basement. Mostly representative pieces of different kinds. Those posted upside down allow better view of the liner interior like Hawley and early rayon liners.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                              #74
                              When it comes to camo helmets, there has to be a certain amount of faith involved. You can sometimes prove camo paint is fake, but can you ever prove it is real, in the scientific sence of the word? You can find all the hallmarks of a real camo helmet, you can find it form the right source, etc, but can you prove it is authentic? Can you prove it was painted in 1944, and not in 1954?
                              You can see documentaries about fake masterpieces that fooled museums or experts of years, even when various testing was done. Making a fake camo helmet would be extremely easy in comparison.
                              I am not writting this for the helmet posted in this thread, but as a general rule for all camo helmets.

                              JL
                              Autopsy of a Battle, the War in Southern France: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZrhUoRdsAQ

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by dhcoleterracina View Post
                                Leo, here's a few of mine, others in the basement. Mostly representative pieces of different kinds. Those posted upside down allow better view of the liner interior like Hawley and early rayon liners.

                                I Would love to see the marine one ! Is there any camos in there ?
                                Here is some of mine but just a couple


                                Attached Files

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