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Early ZB and THW items

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    #76
    The cooperation between the different organisation is a standard procedure on every big exercise here in Germany.

    The Bundeswehr is incoorporated, too, and they have special units for civilian-military teamwork.

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      #77
      Thanks for the explanations, Hoover! It all makes sense now.

      Steve: Yes, the cape, elbow patches, and two of the internal vent covers on this particular jacket are made out of a somewhat darker cloth than the jacket proper (my original photos were a bit washed out, so I increased the contrast, making the color difference even more salient). I think this discrepancy offers a hint into the way the assembly line for the production of these jackets was put together. For instance, the fact that the chest vent covers are made from a different bolt of cloth than the back vent covers, even though they are identical in construction, would suggest that they were applied at different sewing stations, probably in the very early stages of constructing the front and back panels. Given the complexity of these jackets, there must have been quite a few of such stations on the assembly line. Either labor was relatively cheap in Germany back then, or the ZB procurement department had a huge budget for uniforms.

      And speaking of budget for uniforms, you are a freelance clothier for the Belgian Army?! I am beginning to understand where and how you managed to assemble such an incredible collection of rare pieces (some of which I've never even read about before, let alone seen with my own eyes). You, Gordon, Nico, etc. are in a league of your own that guys like me (surplus store trollers and eBay junkies) can only fantasize about joining.

      Best,
      Gene T

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        #78
        Gordon,

        Thanks for the follow ups! Out of the hundreds of unique uniforms I have handled I am especially fond of Moleskin. I think it is one of the toughest, yet most comfortable, cloth ever made for a military garment. But I could be biased

        I also agree with you that the heavy uniform was probably very uncomfortable to wear in the summer. However, it strikes me as being quite good for its intended purpose of disaster assistance. Digging through rubble in such a thing might be hotter than the work uniform, but I would rather have the protection than the comfort. When I work in the forest cutting down trees I sweat like a melting snowcone in Hell with all the stuff I wear, but I have all my limbs still attached

        Hoover,

        More great photos and info! I've learned a ton in this thread. I like the looks of the current THW field jacket.

        Gene T,

        Ah, so the cloth is the same but a slightly darker color. I was wondering if it might be a completely different type of cloth. There are uniforms out there which combine a rubberized fabric for elbows and knees on a uniform that is otherwise made of "normal" cloth.

        My guess is someone thought it would be more fashionable to have the different colors (possible) or some contractor made a boo-boo and they decided to make the best of it (more likely, IMHO). I have quite a few camouflage uniforms where inside pieces (like inside pockets or waistbands) are made from cloth that was improperly printed. Instead of throwing it out, which eventually comes back in higher costs, allowances are sometimes made to utilize the bad cloth.

        Heh... no, my sale to the Belgians was a personal favor to a friend of mine within the command structure. I was able to do that because of my uniform collecting, not the other way around. In fact, I met him because I collect. Most of the stuff I have was picked up individually over a period of about 20 years, the majority being in the last 10.

        Steve

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          #79
          Hi to all ZS-infected


          Time for caps.



          This is a "Schirmmütze, Winter" (winter peaked cap) of the first pattern. The kahkigrau clour is here faded. All caps were piped with the colour of branches, here blue for medical branch (Sanitätsbereitschaft). The sides couklkd be folded down like the Wehrmacht Einheitsfeldmütze.



          Here 3 caps. Left a min condition winter cap (again with blue pining), the two caps on the right are summer caps. They were without piping and a faked fold-down side.


          Schiffchen (sidecap) in grey (pilot-fabric).


          The label. it is dated 1968.


          Summer cap in grey.


          Label. dated 1963, a very early grey item.


          A woolen grey cap to the "Kälteschutzanzug".


          the label.

          Every member of the LSHD and THW got one sidecap and one summer cap. So far I am know from former ZS-member the winter cap was not issued to every man.
          If equipped with the Kälteschutzanzug (not every member got one) he would get a wollen cap, too, of course.

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            #80
            Hoover,

            Those are great hats. I hadn't seen the first type before. I was going to post my M43 style cap last night but ran into camera/computer problems and my desktop is now in for repair.
            My M43 style cap is the same as yours except mine has early BW metal cap buttons. It is marked ZS like yours.
            I'd like to add that ZB/ZS did not wear a cap badge. THW wore their cog wheel THW cap badge on these hats.

            Regards,

            Gordon

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              #81
              Yes, you are right. The THW-cap badge is schown on the middle hat in the first cap. I have a grey cap with German black-red-gold metal cocarde, but I think this was not official.


              A much discussed ZS-item are these sidecaps.
              They are made from corduroy and are known in brown (ABC-branch) and blue (medical) pipings.
              None of the known caps have labels, and some dealer here in Germany selling them as HJ-sidecaps. But I am quite certain that are no HJ caps. My (and the opinion of some other ZS-collectors) is, that they are early caps made for equipping the first batch of aides. But we haven´t any proof of this yet.

              Maybe a HJ-expert can give us a tip that they are no HJ caps for sure. Than we could exclude this version.

              There are still many questions about the uniforms of the Zivilschutz. UNfortunately most of the archives of the West German Zivilschutz were destroyed in the early 90´s when the organisiation of the Zivilschutz was disbanded.

              Comment


                #82
                hoover,

                Very interesting cap once again. I do not think these are HJ but I am not an "expert" in this area. If you don't mind, I can post this photo in a TR forum and ask their opinion. I'll also check my HJ books and see what I can find.

                Regards,

                Gordon

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                  #83
                  That would be nicew. Thanks in advance.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Gentlemen,

                    I just took some pictures with my cold weather tunic and matching cap. Some more detail on the tunic.

                    Regards,

                    Gordon
                    Attached Files

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                      #85
                      A closer view of the cap showing the different buttons from those on hoovers cap.
                      Attached Files

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                        #86
                        A side view.
                        Attached Files

                        Comment


                          #87
                          The interior of the tunic has cloth hangers, suspended from the arm pits, for belt ramps.
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                            #88
                            The holes in the tunic sides for these belt ramps.
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Your M43 cap is in a different cut like mine. My cap is rounded on the top, yours is exactly like the Wehrmacht M43 cap. Your cut I only have seen on pictures. Okay, one item more to look at for my collection

                              Your Kälteschutzjacke is the first pattern.

                              I have the second pattern with open collar:

                              This pattern was used as a service tuni, too. But I have found only a littöe number of pictures with it. I think, it was as unloved as the first pattern due to the wool, so seldom used.


                              I am focussed on the Brandschutzdienst (fire service), so most of my items are from that service. Here a Einsatzjacke in grey "pilot"-fabric. Dated 1965.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                hoover,

                                Thanks for the comments on the difference in our two caps. I hadn't noticed that your cap design was the same as the lighter coloured ones. Very interesting. There is such a lot that we don't know about these uniforms and you are certainly a big help here.

                                Regards,

                                Gordon

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