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Early BGS Jaeger Load Carrying Equipment

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    #31
    Team - Just as we're discussing the subject of BGS bread bags, Manion's put this article up for auction today.

    It's a 1949 dated "1. Modell" with the characteristic leather reinforcement on the belt loops. As you can see, it is gray-green in color with green leather work. There's no telling from these pictures or the description whether or not it has an internal divider.

    As 1949 pre-dates the founding of the BGS by two years, one has to conclude that this item was made for a police agency. During the federalization of the late 40s era Länder Border Police and Landespolizei it can also be assumed that some items of equipment such as this made their way to the BGS.

    Klaus - Thanks for your work on bread bags. I'm perfectly happy with adapting the designations "1. Modell and "2. Modell" until such time that their official designations (indeed if they ever had any) come to light. Any other thoughts fellow members?

    Concerning the markings on your 1. Modell; do you think AGSB could stand for the city of Augsburg in Southern Germany? Could anyone venture a guess for DRP?

    Thanks - TJ
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr.; 08-26-2009, 06:56 PM. Reason: typo

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      #32
      Originally posted by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr. View Post
      Could anyone venture a guess for DRP?
      It used to stand for Deutsches Reichs Patent but might mean something different on a brotbeutel.

      Comment


        #33
        TJ,
        Does your tan/olive breadbag with black leather reinforcements have any stamps? I wonder if they are BGS. I know ZB used also tan equipment (until 1960s) but not sure what colour leather was.

        Interesting if my breadbag was issued to Polizei, then reissued to BGS and later reissued again someone else (who crossed out BGS)?

        regards
        Klaus

        Comment


          #34
          Gents - Here's the only G1 ammo pouch marking that I came up with that differed from the lists provided by sgtmunroe and Klaus (picture courtesy of Manion's).

          Has anyone seen one earlier than 1957 or later than 1972?

          Thanks - TJ
          Attached Files

          Comment


            #35
            Here's the 1949 maker mark from the Manion's bread bag I posted earlier.

            I think sgtmunroe's suggestion that the "DRP" stamp on Klaus's bread bag stands for Deustches Reichpatent may be a contender. The BRD was founded in 1949 and prior to that, its conceivable that newly made items were still stamped with the old, albeit de-nazified, stamps. I think DRP also stood for Deustches Reich Post, a name that stood until 1948.

            What bothers me is that the stamps seem to be uniform. The BGS was founded in 1951, two years after the BRD, so DRP and BGS have no reason to appear in the same stamping.

            Klaus - Does it appear that the stamps are of the same font and were applied at the same time? If this is the case, then I think DRP would be the maker's initials. On other items it's common to see the maker's initials, the agency name and or location, and the date.

            I think we'll need more samples before we can come to any defnitive conclusion. Unfortunately, the bread bags I attribute to the BGS have no markings.

            All the best - TJ
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr.; 08-26-2009, 07:22 PM. Reason: additional info added

            Comment


              #36
              TJ,
              My breadbag have maker stamp in same area but all I can read is "München" because rest is faded. But I can tell stamp is different format from photo. "BGS" on the inside stamp (that is readable) is same font as DRP and AGSB. Possibly both BGS and Polizei item - there is no difference between BGS and Polizei leather G1 pouches or y-straps for example. However I have early postwar Polizei or BGS Esbit stove marked Deutsches Reichspatent, I think Bundespatent began use early 1950s.

              About G1 pouches: There are no pre1957 pouches because 1957 was year of introduction. 1955-1956 was green canvas/black leather G1 pouch used (why they are so rare). After 1972, have no idea but I guess they exist...

              regards
              Klaus

              Comment


                #37
                Klaus - I had completely forgot about the G-43 inspired canvas models. I think the set pictured below is owned by a very lucky fellow forum member who picked it up for a song.

                TJ
                Attached Files

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                  #38
                  ...a song performed by me would be a hard punishment for anybody...

                  Yes, and it came with two mags for the G1... but its not in the best state...and it has no stamp at all !

                  Some more pictures may follow.

                  Regards,

                  Jens

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Team - Manion's is carrying this e-tool as "Czech World War II", but I think it is a good candiate for the early BGS. The maker is "Pionier" and the trademark is of a colonial type pioneer carrying an ax or a shovel over his shoulder.

                    It is also marked "stahl" and the year of manufacture which looks to me to be 1955 (difficult to tell).

                    We know that pionier is a German word that in the military context refers to combat engineers. Stahl means steel. Would a Czech company use this verbiage to describe an e-tool manufactured in the Czech Republic?

                    I would put forward that this is a German manufactured e-tool made in the post-war era for the BGS. The riveted construction on the carrier is also characterisitc of the post-war era.

                    Any thoughts?

                    Thanks - TJ
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Here's a picture of the trademark. The asking price is $125.00 which is a little rich for my blood given the uncertain (in my mind) origin of the equipment.

                      All the best - TJ
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        #41
                        TJ,

                        I lived close enough to the Czech republic for the last three years to necome a little familiar (although a very little) with the language. The markings on this spade would not appear to be in the Czech language. Looks very German to me. I am not a field equipment collector in your league so have no idea when this spade was made although your reading of the date as 1955 would certainly put it in the post WWII time frame.

                        Regards,

                        Gordon

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Hi,

                          PIONIER
                          GUSS
                          STAHL

                          Gußstahl = cast steel

                          German Applicant/Holder for "PIONIER": R. Dahlmann Sohn Nachf. GmbH (and BOCKHORNI & KOLLEGEN)

                          http://isdv.upv.cz/portal/pls/portal...462805&plan=en

                          "... shovels, spades, pickaxes, ..."

                          Regards
                          Uwe

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Uwe - Thanks for clearing that up.

                            Can we conclude that this e-tool was manufactured after the war?

                            Thanks - TJ

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr. View Post
                              Klaus - I had completely forgot about the G-43 inspired canvas models. I think the set pictured below is owned by a very lucky fellow forum member who picked it up for a song.

                              TJ
                              Gentlemen,

                              Here are some more pictures of this G1 pouch. Unfortunately, all I have are the pictures. Not the pouch.

                              Regards,

                              Gordon
                              Attached Files

                              Comment


                                #45
                                From the back.
                                Attached Files

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