UniformsNSDAP

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Early BGS Jaeger Load Carrying Equipment

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    TJ,
    Hopefully I can look at them this weekend and post. Unfortunately still have no internet working at home...

    I can say that my y-straps are marked "HR 1972 BGS" (HR for Hans Römer).

    regards
    Klaus

    Comment


      #17
      As promised, my BGS field equipments. First is my early BGS setup, from around 1951-55. Very basic, not so good as TJ's. No shovel or Zeltbahn yet but hopefully soon. Will post the uniform for this in new thread when it arrives. Breadbag is grey with brown leather but marked BGS. Pouches are prewar manufacture.

      Comment


        #18
        Next setup is for 1960/61-1965. The coconut and M31 models with splittertarn Zeltbahnen were still issued to some units as late as 1961 but disappear after that. Note short messkit. Zeltbahn is early Sumpftarn, dated 1959. Klappspaten introduced around 1959 or 1960. G1 pouches have been in use since late 1950s (mine are both dated 1958).

        Comment


          #19
          Final BGS setup, 1964-1976. The only difference is tall messkit, otherwise like early 1960s. The gas mask cans were for ABC and certain military exercises, frequently not carried. I had one but unfortunately sold it months ago. Will do more setups for Unterführer and Meister/Offiziere later when I have more equipment. These are for Grenzjäger.

          Also have maker stamps for my items but due to time limit at library, will post tomorrow or Monday. And correction, my ystraps are marked "HR 360/71 BGS".

          Comment


            #20
            Here are a few manufacturer stamps found on the G1 Magazintasche:











            I also have ones marked [haven't photographed them]:

            MEGO 1958
            H. ROGGE Berlin 67
            C. RIESE BERLIN 1972


            I will have to dig around as I have more that are in storage and I am unsure of the dates.

            I only have three pair of Y-straps laying around [again the rest are in storage]. They are marked:

            LARSEN 1958
            Dr.R.Römer Ulm 59
            MAX STELZER 61 BERLIN BGS


            Hopefully others have more! I would love to see a list compiled of known manufacturers for these items.

            Comment


              #21
              As promised, my BGS field equipments. First is my early BGS setup, from around 1951-55. Very basic, not so good as TJ's. No shovel or Zeltbahn yet but hopefully soon. Will post the uniform for this in new thread when it arrives. Breadbag is grey with brown leather but marked BGS. Pouches are prewar manufacture. - Klaus1989.

              Klaus - Nice set-ups! What I like most about your gear is that some of it is specifically marked "BGS". I'm really envious of your marked bread bag. I think it's important for the hobby too because our knowledge of post-war BRD bread bags is so sketchy. Hugh Zillman's list above is a great start; now we need to back it up with artifiacts.

              Based on your example we can positively attribute your gray-green bread bag with brown leather work as a BGS type. My dark forest green bread bags can be Polizei for all I know - I need to make a detailed study of the Beim Alten BGS site to see what the boys carried. None of my "BGS looking" bread bags are stamped.

              I have yet to encounter a straight handle e-tool carrier that is free of wartime stamps. I have two made by Carl Busse of Mainz. One has just wartime stamps and stempels. The other has them too, but the wartime date is overstamped "1954". Has anyone seen a straight handle e-tool carrier post-war dated without wartime markings? Are the unmarked specimens with post-war style leather and fixtures that are reviled as fakes and phonies on the Wehrmacht Equipment Forum actually unmarked BGS models?

              The biggest pitfall in the postwar straight handle e-tool market seems to be the Swiss model. I bought one of these in a wartime carrier. It looked "German" and the black blade had been painted "gelboliv". The give aways are the the steel band at the base of the blade and the tapered handle with the brass stud embedded near the end of the handle. This latter feature is part of a field ruler that helped a Swiss soldier measure off a meter. The Swiss trademarks are a dead giveaway off course, but these are poorly understood and are often mistaken for German makers. One that springs to mind is "F.A. SCH 40".

              Post-war marked M1911 patronen taschen are few and far between. I've managed to acquire one. (If anyone has extras that they'd like to sell or trade please PM me). I've copied the pictures from the old "BGS Bundesgrenzschutz" thread and put them here. These photos are from Manion's where I originally acquired the set.

              TJ
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Thomas J. Cullinane Jr.; 08-24-2009, 05:59 PM.

              Comment


                #22
                Rear view of former TR M1911 Kar 98k ammunition pouch re-worked in the post war era and issued to the BGS. The leather bit attaching the D-ring to the middle compartment and the D-ring itself appear to be post-war modifications.

                The pouch retains its TR RB number: RB Nr. 8/0570/0033.

                TJ
                Attached Files

                Comment


                  #23
                  The unit stamp inside the top flap of the center pouch compartment. To the best of my knowledge this translates to: II. Grenzschutzabteilungen der Grenzschutzgruppe 1 - (2/GSG 1) - Second Border Guard Battalion, First Border Guard Group.

                  TJ
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Volume 11 of Cyrus Lee's outstanding "Soldat" series gives this example of a post-war M1911.

                    TJ
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Klaus1989 View Post
                      Next setup is for 1960/61-1965. The coconut and M31 models with splittertarn Zeltbahnen were still issued to some units as late as 1961 but disappear after that. Note short messkit. Zeltbahn is early Sumpftarn, dated 1959. Klappspaten introduced around 1959 or 1960. G1 pouches have been in use since late 1950s (mine are both dated 1958).

                      Klaus - Again, great looking set-ups. I have a completely forest green zelt that I need to examine for markings. The 1959 marking on the Sumpftarn is the earliest I have encountered for this pattern. My earliest dated klappspaten is 1959; anyone have with an earlier date?

                      - TJ

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by sgtmonroe View Post
                        Here are a few manufacturer stamps found on the G1 Magazintasche:











                        I also have ones marked [haven't photographed them]:

                        MEGO 1958
                        H. ROGGE Berlin 67
                        C. RIESE BERLIN 1972


                        I will have to dig around as I have more that are in storage and I am unsure of the dates.

                        I only have three pair of Y-straps laying around [again the rest are in storage]. They are marked:

                        LARSEN 1958
                        Dr.R.Römer Ulm 59
                        MAX STELZER 61 BERLIN BGS


                        Hopefully others have more! I would love to see a list compiled of known manufacturers for these items.
                        Great idea - Why didn't I think of that!

                        I'll dig my leather out this week and start typing.

                        Thanks - TJ

                        Comment


                          #27
                          TJ,
                          I have also seen green Zeltbahnen on ebay.de but not bid on them. They are all dated late 1960s-70s and at least one was marked BGS. I think they are for wear with green field uniform, but in photos they wear sumpftarn and I have not seen green ones.

                          Now that home internet is working, I can post manufacturer stamps on my field equipment. Not sure how much you want.

                          Y-straps:
                          HR 360/71 BGS

                          Belt:
                          EIKO Rindleder BW 100 (BW=Bundweite, not Bundeswehr here!)

                          G1 Mag Pouches:
                          MEGO 1958
                          Max Stelzer 58

                          K98 Pouches (not BGS marked):
                          Thiele AG Dresden 1938
                          manufacturer unreadable, except 1939

                          MP Mag Pouch (not pictured):
                          TWH

                          Zeltbahn:
                          Dr. Lange & Co. 9/59

                          Klappspaten:
                          cover - Hans Römer Neu-Ulm 1961
                          Spaten - 5120 12-121 4532 1964

                          Canteens:
                          M31 - CFL51 (cup) and FSR60 (bottle), my other M31 is unmarked but has Pyrm snaps
                          3rd Model - PSL 13/72 BUND (cup) and PSL 136/69 BGS (bottle)

                          Messkits:
                          short - ESB63 BGS
                          tall - HSK72

                          Breadbags:
                          grey - stamp faded, only München to be read, inside marked DRP BGS AGSB
                          green - faded maker stamp

                          Pack Straps:
                          58 Hans Römer Neu-Ulm
                          LARSEN 1963 BGS

                          regards
                          Klaus
                          Last edited by Klaus1989; 08-24-2009, 07:30 PM.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Here is comparison of early and later breadbags (I call them "Brotbeutel, 1. Modell and 2. Modell). External pattern similar but 1. Modell is not so well made like many West German items before period of Wirtschaftswunder.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Inside is very different. 1. Modell is undivided like wartime breadbags. Underside of flap marked "DRP BGS AGSB" with BGS marked out (reissued later?). Brown straps on green breadbag appear to be replacments and not factory added.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I was lucky to have shoulder straps with both my breadbags. These are often missing, especially with earlier ones. 1. Modell is poorly made with extra fabric to reinforce shoulder area where 2. Modell has stitching.

                                Comment

                                Users Viewing this Thread

                                Collapse

                                There is currently 1 user online. 0 members and 1 guests.

                                Most users ever online was 4,375 at 10:03 PM on 01-16-2020.

                                Working...
                                X