Collecting Military Badges of the Third Reich by Mike Tucker
Some time ago Mike Tucker was nice enough to visit this forum and list the badges that were published in his book that later turned out to be fake. I saved the list, and made notations in my book but its been awile so here is the list again, for those that missed it the first time.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for doing that job.
I have an idea about all these lists that have been posted for the beginning of the forum : would it not be possible to store all of them not in the Forum section but in the Text pages (Private or not, this is another point) and sorted by books ?
Each time a new fake would be found, a post would be leave in this section, members would discuss together the validity. After being arrived to a consensu, the related fake would update the 'Fakes in Reference Books' page.
What is your opinion ?
Regards
Denis
I vote for that!!!
Very nice idea because I´ve lots of printed threads inside my reference books. Every time a new fake is discovered in a book I print that thread and put it inside the book.
Having each book covered in just one thread would be fantastic!
In addition to the list of errors in the book by Michael Tucker, I would like to make mention of two other points.
1. Page #98 18m. shows a closeup view of the 'JFS' logo on the reverse of what I believe to be a reproduction General Assault Badge. This is the badge that has the semi-scooped eagle, bayonet, and stick grenade on the reverse, and the two curved, recessed plates that appear to have rivets and to which the hinge and catch are soldered.
2. Page #114 50m. shows a closeup view of the A.S. in a triangle logo on the reverse of what I believe to be a reproduction Panzer Assault Badge. This appears to be that good-quality, flat-backed repro that has the logo directly above the catch instead of the proper semi-scooped design with the logo directly below the hinge.
By making these two points I am in no way trying to belittle Mike Tucker nor his book. I think he did an excellent job on the book, and every collector should have a copy. My only real complaint about the book is that the binding could have been of better quality. Many pages in my copy have fallen out of the book, although maybe this happened because I have used the book too much.
Happy collecting to all! Tom Yanacek
__________________ Parade Medal Bars of the Third Reich It's finally here!
Available from: Schiffer Publishing Ltd.
Wow Tom, quite the eagle eyes you have! I am not sure about the JFS, but I would have to agree with you on the A.S. mark. You can just barely see the catch in the picture.
I agree also, this is an awesome book, and I use mine frequently as well, although I do wish he would have attributed the close up detail shots of the Pilots badge eagles, IAB eagles, etc to specific makers if there was one. You can never have to much dialed in information!
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Accidentally offending people on the internet since 1997
I have a question regarding your opinion of the JFS marked IAB...
Why do you believe it to be a fake? Is it your opinion that all JFS marked badges with the "semi-scooped eagle, bayonet, and stick grenade on the reverse, and the two curved, recessed plates that appear to have rivets and to which the hinge and catch are soldered" are in fact reproductions? Or, only the one shown in Mike's book.
The reason that I ask is that I own one of these type badges. I have shown it to a few reputable dealers who seem to think that it is OK. However, I also showed it to Tucker, and he did not like it.
I would like to hear your reasoning (or anyone else's) as to why this style of IAB is post-WWII manufacture.
Hi Calvin,
I looked at the photos of your JFS marked General Assault badge and I must say that your badge certainly looks alot more convincing than the other JFS marked GABs that I have seen. Your badge looks well detailed and nicely aged, but these badges just don't talk to me if you know what I mean. The majority of the badges I have seen like this have been of bare zinc with not even a trace of finish on them. The hinge, pin, and catch however had a silver frosted finish to them that looked very suspect in contrast to the unfinished, dark badge itself. These badges have always shown no signs of wear. I am also troubled by the fact that this badge displays such a radical departure from the typical method of construction used by JFS on the other types of badges that they produced. Badges such as the Infantry Assault Badge, Close Combat Clasp, Numbered General Assault and Panzer Assault Badges, and the Naval Destroyer Badge. This method of construction on the General Assault Badge seems like it would have been too time-consuming on the production line, and it does not seem to fit in with German efficiency. I also never liked these badges because they seem too large when compared to other known original GABs. They seem to be about 3mm too big. I remember that these badges seemed to surface in the late 1970s or early 1980s. I know of an unscrupulous dealer that use to, and still does sell these pieces by the dozens. This guy use to live in Ohio, but he now lives in Meadville, Pa. I think he had to move, as he was banned from most of the shows around here. He probably has alot of people looking for him as well. This same guy also sells the fake Hermann Aurich Panzer Badges, the infamous L/21 screwback EK I, the Fake F&BL and FLL Close Combat Bars, bogus SHuCo. Coastal Artillery Badges, fo marked Destroyer Badges, and a whole bunch of fake L/W Flight Clasps to name only a few.
Best regards,
Tom
__________________ Parade Medal Bars of the Third Reich It's finally here!
Available from: Schiffer Publishing Ltd.
I'd like to add some additional info on the GAB's from an article in Militaria Magazine #10 Nov 1994
(these are not my opinions but those from the article)
Here it states this badge has been faked. It shows a photo of an original and the copy. From the reverse there are 2 differences:
Copy - to the left and right of the makers mark there is an indentation which is part of the stamping and follows the contours of the badge rim ie, the eagle.
Original - no indentations, the rim is straight, and no makers mark.
The original shows the plates (that the catch and hinge are attached to), catch and pin as brassy looking, while the fake is shiney, and silver.
Comparing the photos of the obverse, the copy lacks the detail around the claws and bayonet hilt, and the badge in question in this post has the same details of the copy.
On the JFS GAB, I also have one that I am curious about- click the link- any opinions? I don't know if this is good or bad, but it would be nice to get a definitive scan of an authentic one to compare to. Regarding the unique hinge and catch set-ups, go to Jamie Cross' website in his New Items section. Item # C152 is an IAB with a similar set-up that I haven't seen before on an IAB. http://homesteadjuno.com/lorenzo111/files/genassjfs.jpg
I recently got Mike Tucker's book and find it a very valuable resource, especially since I rarely have access to substantial collections of known genuine material.
I do have one question in regards to the list of errors above, this one regarding W.H./WH marked badges. Tucker's book shows a badge marked W.H. with stops that has now identified as a repro. I have seen many badges with W.H. and WH (without the stops). Which style of mark is generally considered the correct one and, in general, what style of pin/catch did this maker use?
Hello Eric,
The W.H. IAB pictured on page #103 of Mike Tucker's is definitely a reproduction. It is a good quality repro that has been around for about twenty years. The maker logo on this piece looks correct for an original, as does the hinge. The real problem with this piece is that it is completely flat-backed and originals by this firm must be dished. A real give away on this closeup photo is the raised rectangular lip around the hinge. Notice that the corners of this lip are sharp and pointed. On an original badge by this firm, the raised rectangular lip will have rounded corners and not sharp 90 degree points. When looking at an original and repro side by side this difference would be very distinct. I also believe that when comparing an original with the repro, the repro is about 2-3mm too large. The book also idenifies this maker as the Gablonz firm of Walter & Henlein. I believe that this maker is more likely the Vienna firm of Wilhelm Hobacher. I have an original Luftwaffe Flak Badge with the WH logo and the issue envelope is marked 'W.Hobacher Vien 107'. Incidentally, the Luftwaffe Flak Badge does not have the stops after the letters. The original Infantry Assault Badges by this firm should have the stops after the letters. The original badge should also be solid between the rifle bolt and the wreath, not pierced out. I can't remember if the repro is solid or pierced though. It has always been my belief, that whoever made these fake Infantry Assault Badges is the same person that is responsible for the fake, flat-backed, A.S. in a triangle marked Panzer Assault Badges.
Best regards,
Tom Yanacek
__________________ Parade Medal Bars of the Third Reich It's finally here!
Available from: Schiffer Publishing Ltd.
to rgordon: If I understand your post about the article on the GAB, the original does not have a makers mark? I have an unmarked badge with the rivited conections, I saw Tucker's fake on his website and have wondered about mine. The front of my badge seems so well made and detailed that I found it hard to believe that it was a fake. If you get that article scanned I would really like a copy. Thanks
Couldn't scan the whole article, for various techinical reasons :mad:, so just included the pics and a little excerpt of text from the article. :rolleyes:
hello calvin richard,
thanks for that atricle though the pics are really small, i have a jfs badge just like yours calvin except!! mine has round rivets not flat, ive posted this several times on open forum and didnt really get any good answer........mine is bigger that the other 6 gab i have and the pin was replaced but otherwise its just like calvins i wonder what style rivets are they suppose to have??????????????????
Collecting Military Badges of the Third Reich by Mike Tucker
Parade Medal Bars of the Third Reich
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