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Fj. RKT Soldbuch views.....
Old 08-19-2004, 08:05 PM   #1
Ian Jewison
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Default Fj. RKT Soldbuch views.....

Gents,

If you have not seen this already, anyone care to make any comment, views, expert knowledge, confirmation etc!?

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?p=538180

Ta, Ian
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Old 08-20-2004, 10:00 AM   #2
Chris
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No claim to the Knights Cross has been made by or for anyone of that name from a Fallschirmjäger unit in the 60 years since the end of the war. Since the individual survived the war, given the status and benefits accruing from being a Ritterkreuzträger in German society, the fact alone that no claim has been made makes it extremely unlikely that this man received this award.

From a purely militaria perspective, even if this man did receive the RK, the lack of other corroborating makes this Soldbuch with this entry highly suspect and reduces its value and collectability. Because of the dubious nature of the entry, it would be wise to steer clear of this artifact.
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Old 08-20-2004, 10:54 PM   #3
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I am going to disagree with Chris on this one. The fact that this individual is not "listed", or no claim has been filed (approved) for special benefits, really would not be of a concern to me. I believe over time, more and more legitimate winners of both the RK and DK will be recognized, who are currently not "listed". I cannot see any problems with the overall look and content of the book. The entries and writting sure look period to me. My Father ( who owns over 60 paratrooper soldbuchs ) took a look at it as well, and did not see anything of concern. It will be interesting to see what further research will tell us.
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Old 08-21-2004, 12:11 PM   #4
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OK, Eric, we'll disagree on this one. I only have about 35 ID books these days, but many more have passed through my hands over the years (including the one I traded you last week) and few in the hobby have taken more of an interest in Soldbücher than I have over the years, as you know.

Having lived in Germany as a diplomat for a number of years, I can attest to both the highly structured nature of German society and the exceptional benefits (financial and social) that accompany membership in the most exclusive "club" in Germany, the Ritterkreuzträger. It would be hard to find any analogy that works in American society -- maybe the fraternity at Yale that Bush belonged to -- in terms what being in this select group means in terms of opening doors and opportunities in society.

Records have been kept by the Bund Deutsche Fallschirmjäger of everyone who has ever indicated that they received the RK. This man's name is not among them. I'm a member of the Bund Deutsche Fallschirmjäger myself, and having had the privledge of speaking at length with more than a dozen FJRK over the years, I know how seriously this is taken. Since this man survived the war, it's almost inconceivable that his case has not become known.

The completely nondescript manner in which this most important of entries was made in the Soldbuch is also, to me, suspect. I think I know a little bit about document forgery in my line of work, too, and I hardly think adding one word in a taped-together Soldbuch would be impossible. Document forgery is an art in Germany and elsewhere. Several volumes of entire "Hitler Diaries" were faked by Klaus Kujo, for example, which fooled many experts for a long time, using period ink, paper, pens and a little lemon juice and dust. I don't think adding one word cleverly to a Soldbuch for $1000 or more in value is that hard.

Given all of the above, the more important point I was trying to make was, even supposing this man DID receive the RK, and HAS somehow remained an anonymous and unknown RKTräger for 60 years (until now), forsaking all benefits of the RK, and the entry WERE legitimate, it would still be unwise to invest a large sum of money purely on the existence of one word in a Soldbuch in the absence of any other evidence. Verification means a lot in this case as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 08-21-2004, 01:40 PM   #5
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Gents,

I can see where you are both coming on this one, however one thing to consider....May 1945 this man could genuinly have been awarded the Ritterkreuz either by his unit Commander of a higher level Commander. With that said if the correct paperwork has not been submitted and approved then OKW are unaware and the award was not rendered.

Walther Peer-Fellgiebel's book on Ritterkreuzträger admits that higher unit commanders took it upon themselves in the closing stages of the war to award the RK themselves....god knows how many there were but there were sure some disappointed Soldiers if their awards were revoked!

I pesonally know 5 Deutsches Kreuz holders who are not mentioned in any sources and were awarded the DK with Urkunde with the notation made in their personal papers.....3 have the same date of award, however I will not post it here just in case someone picks up on it and starts their own line of paperwork!!

I am happy with the majority of entries in the Soldbuch even to Deutsches Kreuz...the Ritterkreuz entry looks good, but as you have pointed out Chris some people have got this off to an art.....

This definately requires further research, however it could well be difficult to prove the DK and RK if they are not listed now in known sources.....relevant paperwork for the closing stages of the war could well be lost.

Then again it could be complete .........

Is he actually a Fj. RKT??? Even though he served with Fj.Rgt. 16..the security check corresponds with Fj.Ers.Btl. in Stendal ...

One thing is for sure and you mentioned this Chris...for such a small force and an elite formations, it is amazing that no one has picked up on him or heard of him before!?!?!!?

Regards, Ian

P.S. Chris, I could do with your address again as I still have these copies for you
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Last edited by Ian Jewison; 08-21-2004 at 01:46 PM.
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more pics
Old 08-25-2004, 05:21 AM   #6
aktinium
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Hy,


I have add some more pics of the solbuch in the original thread.

Are there any new ideas from the fallschirmjäger collectors?

Thanks to all

Stefan
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