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Order of Battle and Individual Research Forum Order of battle, unit history, personality research.

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Old 11-09-2012, 03:30 AM   #31
Ruimteaapje
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sepp45 View Post
It's really extrange, because it says he died in Berlin..
Indication: he's burried at a war cemetery in Obermeitingen-Schwabstadl, 75 km from Murnau and 655 km from Berlin.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #32
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"On April 29, 1945, during the oflag assembly a plane with Polish insignia had appeared in the sky, circled above the assembly square, tried to signal something and went away. Soon on the road to the camp appeared American tanks. At the same time from the other side of Murnau 2 German cars approached. They stopped upon noticing the tanks. Germans had been taken by surprise. SS officer in the first car opened fire from the machine gun, at the same time his companion jumped out of the veihicle. Both men were killed on the spot by Americans. The same fate met the passengers of the second car. Among the killed Germans was SS-Brigadeführer Fick. His briefcase contained the letter signed by Himmler. It was an order to kill all 5000 Polish officers in Murnau. To execute this task Fick had had at his disposal an SS group in 40 armored vehicles that started from Munich. Most likely the SS-man intended to assemble the POWs and killed them with the machine guns fire from guard's towers."

Without any source (period US unit history, etc), this information is not credible at all, as is indicated by the fact that the killed officer was buried hundreds of kilometers away.

From my experience, every time a German officer was killed, some kind of extraordinary document was found on him, orders form his division for the next three months, photos of nude women nailed to the ground with baionets, etc, etc. Usualy it is information multiplied by 100 by witnesses who could not even read German.

JL
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:22 AM   #33
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Awesome pics, thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:17 PM   #34
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In the pictures there are Fick and Teichmann. Two others (from the second car) escaped through the garden of a nearby house and were shot at. I don't know if they died, at least there is no evidence. The SS officers in the first car didn't expect the Americans to arrive and jumped out when they realized the situation they were in but didn't get too far. Interestingly, the first tower to the north was already occupied by Americans filming the Poles, then swing the camera around when the shots are fired. I am writing a book about Oflag VII A and I can provide more information after its release.
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Old 10-28-2015, 04:30 PM   #35
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Hi,

the full subject was discussed ad nauseam on the french website, and the full story is already known.

Both Fick/Teichmann cars and the US Task Force were both taken by surprise, resulting in the shooting.

No, the guys in the first car are Teichmann (was sitting behind his driver on the right - behind the car, with the 20mm wound on the feet) and his driver (on the side, then pulled out on the side of the road).
Fick was in the second one with his driver. Unfortunately no photo surfaced yet.

At least 3 of the 4 guys from the SS-Hauptamt were killed (Teichmann, Widmann (his driver) and Fick).

Both cars were destroyed by the M8 20mm gun.

Loïc and I worked the full story using all the sources years ago, you can contact me to check if we can help you...

See You

Vince
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Old 10-28-2015, 04:57 PM   #36
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Lohmax, you are quite right. In 1980 I met one of the tankers who liberated that camp. He told me the story (from the best his memory could recount) that his unit was very slowly advancing towards the camp and was almost upon it when 2 German cars appeared and one was military. The lead Sherman opened fire striking the front of the car and the occupants got out and started to run where they were quickly cut down. The people in the 2nd car were already running and managed to get away before fire could be brought on them. After the very quick action GI's entered the camp which wwas prepared for surrender. When they saw they were SS officers the rumor mill started that they were coming to Kill prisoners, but the allied highest in command at the camp quieted the rumors by showing the newly arrived GI's that the Germans had already surrendred and gave their former prisoners their arms with the stated clause they would be treated in the exact way they treated their former prisoners. They were put in one of the barraks and left alone. This story doesn't have the "bravado" of the SS killing prisoners, but I believe this is pretty close to the truth as it comes from a witness to the events.
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Old 10-28-2015, 06:55 PM   #37
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Hi,

photos and video prove that :

- NO Sherman fired
- NO guy "runned out" from the first car (they were both mortally wounded)
- no massacre was planned
- Fick was not in the first car

See You

Vince

Last edited by FrenchVolunteer; 10-28-2015 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 10-28-2015, 08:48 PM   #38
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Good observation French,it doesn't say in my notes what fired, i.e. Tank cannon or mg, it only says lead scout car and tank fired on car. The way the bodies lay they surely had backs turned and we're trying to get away. Are you suggesting they were shot in the car and pulled out? I doubt that was the case.
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Old 11-02-2015, 08:20 AM   #39
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Fear FrenchVolunteer and Bcarver,

Thank you very much for your replies. Yes, I am very interested in the full story, which I have worked on for some time now.

Both your statements are very interesting, with Bcarver's also matching what I have read in German and Polish accounts.

I have several witnesses, one of them being a young boy at the time who showed them the way to the camp on a map. Also, I have the accounts of several Polish witnesses (discounting the ones who just repeated the rumors) and those of the people whose garden the two officers ran through as they escaped. Of course, witnesses are not necessarily reliable.

The biggest problem I have encountered is that of "Widmann" whose existence is yet to be proven.
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:36 AM   #40
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Hi,
why are the bodies in different positions in the photos were they pulled out of the car or moved and looted? Assume the photo of them in the middle of the road its 1st as he still has his cap on and fresh blood running on the floor.
mark
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Old 11-02-2015, 09:44 AM   #41
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Initially, one fell beside the car and the other one behind it. Later, they were pulled out of the way of the US vehicles which passed the shot-up cars. There you can see that someone also picked up the cap and placed it next to the two bodies.
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