8x30's...But Which Nationality?

[NZMark]

Hi Guys,
I picked these up on a local auction site for a couple of reasons, but mainly because they are an NZ soldiers souvenir (& I have a small soft-spot for optics).
Can I get some opinions on their nationality, please? It has been suggested they are Italian....?
Thanks for everyone's time,
Mark

[NZMark]

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[NZMark]

3

[Wpgbinocular]

San Giorgio was Italy's most well known and prolific manufacturer of binoculars from before WWII into the 1950's. Your binocular differs from my circa 1930's San Giorgio ESA 6X30 in four ways (ocular construction, covering, IPD plate, style of marking) which suggests it is not a San Giorgio. Could be another, lesser known, Italian maker but I doubt it.

[NZMark]

Thanks!
Japanese, perhaps?
Mark

[NZMark]

No ideas, anyone?
Mark

[nickn]

huet perhaps?

[Wpgbinocular]

This one's got me stumped. Lenses don't look coated and it appears to be circa 1930's. The Japanese didn't make a lot of 8X30's before the war and neither did the Soviets so I don't think it's either of those. The IPD plate doesn't look pre-war French but the ocular assemblies do look a little French especially BBT Krauss.The French also were one of the few countries who before the war favored the 8X30 configuration and made a lot of individual focus 8X30's. The French also made a lot of cheaper binoculars before the war some of which weren't marked with maker's name but most of these were 8X24 and center focus and this one looks like better quality than the unmarked French ones. If it's pre-war my guess is it's French and if early post-war eastern European.

[NZMark]

Hi Guys,
This is an NZ veteran's souvenir from his service overseas (see name/serial number/2NZEF inscription) so pre-WWII or manufactured during the war and taken as a trophy.
Thanks for the help so far!
Mark

[blinky]

As mentioned, probably not Japanese. The Japanese were great at marking their optics, especially binoculars and the finish is different than what you see on Japanese binoculars.

[NZMark]

Has anyone seen this molded-leather eye cover pattern before? Could be a clue as the neck-strap and cover seem a similar age to the binoculars....
Mark

[Stew]

Hi Mark,
A nice set of binoculars and loaded with mystery too!


I have not studied WW2 French or Italian binoculars. However for the completeness of our discussions on this thread I have a few observations :
1) what seems particularly distinctive about your binoculars is that they are made from light alloys like the German Dienstglas from say 1939-45. No flashy brass is evident! The binoculars appear well made structurally and they do appear to be of 1940's vintage.
2) The placement of the single screw securing of the prism covers is very distinctive. And the placement of this screw is in a different position to other Eastern European WW2 binoculars which favoured a single securing screw on the top prism covers - eg :
(i) Russian WW2 standard binoculars 6x30
(ii) H .Kolberg ,Warszawa and PZO,Warszawa (both 6x30)
(iii) Czech Army variants:
Optikotechna,Prerau vz9/13 6x30
dow Dienstglas 6x30 ( a derivative of vz9/13)
postwar Meopta vz.48 6x30 (a derivative of vz9/13)
K.P Goerz,Bratislava vz9/13 6x30

The above examples are all 6x30's , but as a rule 6x30 and 8x30 binoculars share the same body and external dimensions.


The Japanese binoculars which appear in Dr Rohan 's Guide to Hand held Binoculars do not match your example.

The provenance supplied with your binoculars states that they were a 2NZEF Kiwi soldier's trophy ( so liberated in Nth Africa or Italy during WW), so it seems to me that it could be an Italian set . The problem is that not many optical collectors are into Italian optics and thus very little info on these is shared. And the Italian WW2 binoculars that I have seen have an Italian makers commercial logo on the top prism covers. etc

Sorry Mark , this rambling note takes us not much further .

[NZMark]

Stew,
Thank You kindly for taking the time to post on this one (and the WWI Zf set as well). I know you saw this on the same auction site I did and seeing where this came from I have no doubt that these have not had a post war inscription added.
A mystery indeed. I've had Japanese binoculars and do still own several NZ veteran returned sets of German manufactured 6x30's, 8x30's & 10x50's (& a set of Zf from either an assault gun or armoured car) but all are liberally marked and generally common items.
Tracing the soldier's service history will be another step in determining area of origin but at this stage I thought it might be a tad easier to get a wider audiences thoughts...(Trust me to be difficult)
Regards,
Mark

[Wpgbinocular]

Originally Posted by Stew

Hi Mark,

1) what seems particularly distinctive about your binoculars is that they are made from light alloys like the German Dienstglas from say 1939-45. No flashy brass is evident! The binoculars appear well made structurally and they do appear to be of 1940's vintage.
2) The placement of the single screw securing of the prism covers is very distinctive. And the placement of this screw is in a different position to other Eastern European WW2 binoculars which favoured a single securing screw on the top prism covers - eg :
this rambling note takes us not much further .

Hmmm, your "rambling note" helps.... My pre-war 6X30 Italian San Giorgios have two screws per prism plate which is typical of many military 6X30's and 8X30's. However, my pre/early war military model BBT Krauss 8X30's have only one screw per prism plate (although placement of single screw is different than that of mystery binocular) and also are constructed of alloy - http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwp...57623234405689 .

[NZMark]

Thanks Team,
I'm more than happy to take detailed photos of any particular area...
Mark