Postcard " Hitler at Obersalzberg" ?

[GELIS44]

Was this photo taken at the Berghof / Berchtesgaden / Obersalzberg?

Thanks!

gelis44@gmail.com

[randy@treadways]

Yes, he's walking in the road just below Haus Türken; not quite in the driveway to Haus Wachenfeld / Berghof.

[byterock]

Is it just me or does that postcard look like a period collage??

Looks like someone was trying to breaks Hoffman's exclusive photo hold on AH and the Berghof.

[Br. James]

I agree with Randy; the photo appears to be looking up the hillside behind the Berghof toward the Zum Türken Leibstandarte-SS billet above Hitler's villa. And I think I see what you mean, byterock, though the problem may have been that the camera was focused on Wilhelm Brückner and others standing behind Hitler, which left AH in the foreground and the Türken in the background out of focus.

Br. James

[max history]

Br. James,
The Türken was not used by the LAH as a billet. The LAH provided the visible guard security, but the building was used by the Reichsicherheitsdienst. The LAH was housed in the SS-Kaserne further up and over the hill behind the Berghof.
Max.

[randy@treadways]

If I've heard right, the Türken was used as a telephone exchange/switchboard for the entire Obersalzberg.... and also some kind of Liebstandarte AH command & control center for hilltop security operations... but not billeting, which was in the barracks on up the hill.

I spent a nice weekend at the Türken 22 years ago. All the guest rooms have thick steel doors that date back to the war.... but it was a very pleasant stay. I recommend it. If you can reserve the upstairs big bedroom- do so. It has the best view, with a balcony (visible up under the eave behind Hitler in this postcard), and if I remember right has its own bathroom. The other rooms all share a hallway bathroom. You need to reserve this room ahead of time through Frau Scharfenburg. Oh yes, one other thing- the hotel is only open to guests in the summer season.

[max history]

Originally Posted by randy@treadways

If I've heard right, the Türken was used as a telephone exchange/switchboard for the entire Obersalzberg.... and also some kind of Liebstandarte AH command & control center for hilltop security operations... but not billeting, which was in the barracks on up the hill.

I spent a nice weekend at the Türken 22 years ago. All the guest rooms have thick steel doors that date back to the war.... but it was a very pleasant stay. I recommend it. If you can reserve the upstairs big bedroom- do so. It has the best view, with a balcony (visible up under the eave behind Hitler in this postcard), and if I remember right has its own bathroom. The other rooms all share a hallway bathroom. You need to reserve this room ahead of time through Frau Scharfenburg. Oh yes, one other thing- the hotel is only open to guests in the summer season.

I stayed at the Türken many times in the 1980s and 1990s and I counted Ingrid Scharfenberg as a friend. I don't remember thick steel doors; they were hardwood. In those days guests had to leave their keys on a hook on the room outside door frame when going out! The front door was usually locked. Quite a few of the rooms had ensuite facilities. There are actually two adjoining rooms under the eaves with balconies and neither had baths, just showers. They had only curtains, not doors, to the ensuite toilet and washing area from the room. Randy is right about the view though. Sadly, with the redevelopment of the Obersalzberg area, a lot of the historic atmosphere has been lost and I would not stay there again. Frau Scharfenberg is now in advanced years. Most of the surviving ruins and buildings have been demolished and replaced by a large car park, a visitor centre and a huge modern hotel on what was once the Göring Hill. The Berghof garage has gone, as has the Platterhof, the SS-Kaserne flooring, the motor pool, the Göring Landhaus flooring and the Hintereck café. The guesthouse has been turned into the visitor centre which has a bog standard exhibition of large photo images chronologically laid out. Boring, but that is so-called progress. Ingrid Scharfenberg must be pulling her hair out.
Max.

[GELIS44]

I knew it had to be Turken if the photo was taken at the Berghof. Thanks for the help.

[Br. James]

I, too, visited the Obersalzberg, back in 1999, and though I didn't stay at the Türken, I did meet Frau Scharfenberg and I took the tour of the tunnel system below that section of the mountain. Very interesting, to say the least!

Thank you for the correction, Max. While I knew that the large SS Barracks was further up the hillside toward the "General Walker Hotel," I can swear that I've seen period photos of SS men in field gear, helmets and all, standing in muster line in the parking lot of the Türken?! Perhaps that location was used for the changing of the guard? Authors have also referred to the Türken as being occupied by the SS from the mid-30s till war's end, so that is where I have the idea from -- I suppose I assumed that the "SS" presence was the LAH, but it could have been the RSD! I think I've also seen modern reproductions of supposedly-period photos in tourist magazines advertising the Obersalzberg with SS men lined up in the Türken parking lot. Can you say a further word about the RSD using the Türken and what they were occupied with there? Very interesting! Thanks again, Max!

Br. James

[max history]

The Reichssicheitsdienst (RSD) should not be confused with the Sicherheitsdienst (SD) or Gestapo (Sipo.) In short, the RSD were primarily responsible for close protection of high profile personalities and they were based in the Türken for Obersalzberg duties. Their commander, Hans Rattenhuber, had an office and a bedroom at the Türken. There was also a telephone switchboard which controlled all calls to the Berghof. The LAH provided guard duties along with some other SS units and they were billeted in the SS-Kaserne. The Führer Begleit Bataillon provided guard duties for Hitler at his military FHQs and an escort guard for when he was travelling.
The forecourt of the Türken was used as a convenient central place to change the guard as Hitler did not want guard changing going on outside his front door. It was his private residence after all! There are numerous photos of SS troops parading and marching in columns on and off the Türken forecourt.
Ingrid Scharfenberg's late husband used to take the money at the entrance to the bunker system. I remember talking to him once when he was feeding the fish at the rear of the hotel. Frau Scharfenberg told me that she personally knew (and liked) Eva Braun even though her family had been evicted from the Türken to make way for the RSD. She retired from hotel keeping soon after 2000 and leased the hotel to a younger couple. They opened the dining room as a restaurant, but did not make a success of it. I stayed there also under their management, but it wasn't the same. When they left, Frau Scharfenberg came out of retirement and continued to run the establishment as a hotel. The one enduring memory I have of the old hotel was the bar. It was self-service! Guests had to write down what drinks they had taken. At night, with all the tourists gone, soft music in the bar and a photo of Eva Braun overlooking proceedings, one could sit back and feel the history. Wonderful memories.
Max.

[randy@treadways]

I was going to write about that same bar tab system downstairs in the sitting room (that room had the only TV in the building). I believe it may have been home to the telephone switchboard during the war. There was a refrigerator and a notepad for guests to write down any drinks they took out of the fridge, along with their room number. A very basic honor system.

I was there in 1990 in early May and it was relatively quiet. I remember talking to Frau Scharfenberg as she peeled potatoes in the kitchen.

I also remember the elderly gentlemen in the little 'greenhouse' entrance to the tunnels, collecting the fee and selling pamphlets and postcards. I didn't realize he was Frau Scharfenberg's husband.

I visited those tunnels under the Türken for the first time in June 1963, when I was 7 years old. I have some nice color photos that my dad took that day, showing what Obersalzberg looked like at the time.

I visited next in September 1979.

My most recent visit (tunnels only) was the first week of January, 2010. First time I'd been there in the winter.

So I've been there four times, spread over 47 years. Boy, I'm getting old!

I suspect when Frau Scharfenberg passes on, the government will grab the Türken and demolish it.

[Br. James]

Wonderful history lesson and reminiscences from both Max and Randy!! When I visited the Türken in 1999, Frau Scharfenberg herself was working the entrance gate to the tunnel system; perhaps her husband was out for lunch at that time? Your reminiscences are greatly appreciated, my friends, and we all owe you a debt for sharing these intimate recollections with us! They are the stuff that makes our hobby come alive!

Br. James

[max history]

In the late summer of 1988, during one of my many stays at the Türken, my friend and I ventured out at sundown. We had free access to the entire area: Göring's house, the Kindergarten and greenhouse sites, the SS-Kaserne and motor pool, and we finished up having a drink in the bar at the Platterhof (Hotel General Walker.) Strange, but they didn't accept Deutschmarks in the General Walker....we had to change to US dollars to pay for our drinks! Down at the site of the SS-Kaserne there was a soccer pitch and at one end you could still see the wooden parquet flooring of the SS gymnasium! In those days, the ruined Berghof garage was still there and you could crawl inside it. Once inside, it was intact with surviving pipework, etc. Grafitti covered the walls. On one of my return visits, I actually stood and watched as the garage was bulldozed, a witness to the destruction of history. I was also there when the surviving plinth upon which the Feldherrnhalle monument to the victims of the 1923 Putsch in Munich was chipped away and removed, obliterating all remnants of the monument.
Max.

[max history]

Originally Posted by Br. James

When I visited the Türken in 1999, Frau Scharfenberg herself was working the entrance gate to the tunnel system; perhaps her husband was out for lunch at that time? !

Br. James

By then, he was out permanently. I think he died in the early to mid-90s if memory serves me well.
Max.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Originally Posted by max history

I don't remember thick steel doors; they were hardwood. Max.

Max - You must have been a "First-Class" guest . . . in my memory, form both of my visits, when you take a room at Peasant Level, the doors are most certainly solid steel - I know, because they make a loud "boom" in the middle of the night when "Nature" calls! The echo these doors make throughout the hallway when being closed is most revealing - and without a doubt, all the guests sharing the same floor know you're late-night comings-and-goings . . .