estand item; Joseph Bürckel Gauleiter of Vienna Hoffmann book Signed

[John Pen.]

Hello all,
I posted this book on estand last month.
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=589759

Since then, I was informed by a friend here on WAF that the signature in the book I was offering does not match some known examples of Bürckel's signature.

I am posting some close-ups here, to show that it is a period "presentation" note on official embossed letterhead with Bürckel's name on it as Reichskommissar of Vienna.
All of that is not in question to me.
The question is the signature. It does not look like the examples that were emailed to me by the member.

Is it possible that the book, a New Years gift to a co-worker, was signed Bürckel by a subordinate with permission? Or maybe it is in "autopen"?
It doesn't seem to make sense that this is a recent forgery for a number of reasons.
And, why would it be a wartime forgery?

Can anyone help me solve this, as to why the signatures are not alike?
If the consensus is "modern forgery", I can live with that, although I know that it has been this way since I purchased it 20 years ago, and it looked exactly the same(old).

Please have a look. All comments welcome.

[John Pen.]

more pics

[John Pen.]

more

[dave peifer]

hi john.........that is puzzling,my thought was if it were a later forgery,why not make it closer to known examples?very possibly an aids signature........dave

[max history]

John,
One thing is certain.....that is not Josef Bürckel's signature. It appears to be laboured and does not flow freely. The piece could be an unsigned wartime dedication which has been signed post-war by someone who had no idea of what Bürckel's signature looked like. It could also be a post-war fake piece signed by a person ignorant of Bürckel's signature. Don't forget there's a lot of forged material about sourced from the 1970s and 1980s. Forgery is not a modern phenomenon.
The suggestion of a secretarial signature is a very slight possibility, but I doubt it. It's certainly not autopen.
All Bürckel's signatures and handwriting I have personally seen did not vary a great deal from the examples shown here in my SS Leadership Corps book. I have several examples in my own archive which are the same as these.
My money is one one of the first two suggestions I made.......signed by an ignorant forger in order to increase the value of the book.
Regards,
Max.

[max history]

John,
Just had another thought..........it's extremely unusual to see a book dedication stuck to the inside cover. They are nearly always stuck on the first blank paper leaf. This tends to indicate a post-war forgery.
Max.

[dave peifer]

yes max, could be a forgery from 70s-or so.usually you view a forgery as an almost identicle signature,however this could have been done to be sold to someone who never saw the real signature to compare.i also thought,maybe a long shot,an aid who placed the book plate,or dedication and signed the name on his own never thinking it would make a difference and placed it in the library.a lot could depend on the original source also

[dave peifer]

max........unfortunatly the more i look at the original posting from e-stand,the more i agree with your views.......dave

[John Pen.]

Thanks for the opinions guys.

Max, isn't it likely that the embossed stationary is good, from the desk of Bürckel?
I don't think some one would go through the trouble of faking the stationary of Bürckel. In the 50's, '60's & '70's, imho, forgers would have gone for more recognizable names.

That said, I agree that sig. is not that of Bürckel.

Thanks again for your time.
John

[max history]

Originally Posted by John Pen.

Thanks for the opinions guys.

Max, isn't it likely that the embossed stationary is good, from the desk of Bürckel?
I don't think some one would go through the trouble of faking the stationary of Bürckel. In the 50's, '60's & '70's, imho, forgers would have gone for more recognizable names.

That said, I agree that sig. is not that of Bürckel.

Thanks again for your time.
John

John,
Without seeing it close up it's impossible to tell. However, do not be fooled into thinking that "lesser" names were not forged back in those times. I distinctly remember a complicated document I bought unseen from a well known US auction house in the late 1970s. It was signed by Walther Darré. When it arrived, it was an obvious forgery. Not just the signature, but the whole thing. The forger had gone to extraordinary lengths to create a very intricate document which was very cheap to buy (in those days!) The auction house took it straight back without question and even agreed with me once they got it back.
Regards,
Max.

[John Pen.]

For anyone interested, I have removed label from book and it's being sold for the "value" of the book only(on estand).
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=589759