Walter & Henlein EKs?

[Stepdale]

Hello,
I am posting these photos for my friend Pavel, who lives in Gablonz (now Jablonec in the Czech Republic). He has done extensive research and metal detecting in the area, and on this and the GCA forum has helped to provide a lot of info on Gablonz makers. He posted the following photos and info on GCA, but didn't receive the responses that I feel these items deserve.

To begin with, we are referring to an EK1 often found on auction sites, especially in the Czech Republic. This type of EK1 has a small bubble/indent under the hinge, and many collectors consider this to be a reproduction, though the doubters on the GCA could provide no solid reasoning for why they believe this. The next three photos show the pinback version of the EK1 that I am referring to.

[Stepdale]

Here is the reverse with the pin up. Note the distinctive bubble under the hinge.

[Douglas 5]

Interesting cross .
As to the 'bubble' I see it as the pre-cut mounting hole for the anti-rotation pin which disk back cross can have . This same back then can be used for both types .

Douglas

[Stepdale]

Now, here is a screwback EK1 together with an EK2 that Pavel got 19 years ago from an older man in Gablonz. As a young man shortly after the war, this man worked in the former Walter & Henlein factory, and found numerous screwback EK1s and EK2s in a factory warehouse. He personally gave these to Pavel.

First the screwback EK1.

[Stepdale]

Now without the disc. Douglas, note that the bubble is present, but is not where the stabilizing pin is placed.

[Stepdale]

Now the EK2 that the man gave to Pavel. I believe it is a match to many (though not all) of the unmarked EK2s often found in W&H envelopes.

[Stepdale]

Now the EK1 and EK2 placed side by side as a comparison.

[Douglas 5]

I had answered before the last picture was posted . The pin is in another spot . A few EK1s I have seen have that hole . The best idea for that may be an air release hole of some sort during soldering ... those crosses were not fakes .
As to the comparison .... the frames seam to match but the cores do not ... different 9s as far as I can see with the one date sitting a bit lower .

Douglas

[Stepdale]

Now comes the interesting part. Pavel did some detecting near a building that housed a Wehrmacht staff near the end of the war. He found an area that was probably where the staff or someone (maybe local Czechs or the Russians) burned many items. In this area, Pavel found melted clumps of zinc and partially melted buttons, awards and gas masks. Only badges near the edge of the burned area and items made of tombak survived. Below are some of the items that Pavel found, which included several EK1s from various makers and one pinback that includes the harware and bubble that matches the EK1 that started this thread.

[Stepdale]

Here are pictures of the EK1 Pavel dug, along with some others of the same design that other people he knows dug up.

[Stepdale]

Final photos.

[Stepdale]

Now for a wrapup:

1. Pavel and I believe his finds prove that the EK1s with the bubble are original. Douglas, I see you agree, but would like to see what others think.

2. The two crosses that the older gentleman gave to Pavel serve as a likely (though not definite) link that W&H produced these EK1s with the bubble and the EK2 as well. I would ask that some of you knowledgeable EK fans with a better eye for detail than I have a look at the EK2 and compare it to those most often found with W&H envelopes. I tried to do so and think they match, but I am not an EK expert nor do I have an eye for the type of detailed comparison needed to match them or not.

I hope that Pavel's finds will help dispel the belief that these EK1s are post-war made. I also believe, though it can't be proven 100%, that these EK1s are produced by W&H. I have found it odd over the years that Gablonz makers, noted for developing the Gablonz method for EK2s, have not been identified as producers of EK1s. The fact that most of these EK1s of both the screwback and pinback variety are found in or near the Czech Republic IMHO points to a maker in the area, most likely in Gablonz.

Pavel and I look forward to your input and hope it leads to some interesting discussions.
Thank you,
Dale

[streptile]

Really a fascinating thread -- we haven't had a good EK mystery to sink our teeth into for a long time.

I've just looked briefly so far, but I can say this:

1. All the frames (EK2, EK1 pinback, EK1 screwback) match each other.
2. On first glance I think the frames are all the same as the uncommon version used by maker "27" with the cross-hatched corners. I can't seem to find a good scan of this frame -- can someone post one please?
3. The cores in the screwback and the EK2 match. The core in the pinback is definitely a "27" core, also used by Souval.
4. Maker "27" is not thought to have made EK1s -- yet.
5. I don't think any of these are by maker Walter & Henlein -- they don't match (frame or core) the one specific cross I believe is a W&H.

Finally, thank you very much for posting this stuff!

[streptile]

PS: Maker "27" is Maria Schenkl, a Vienna maker.

[streptile]

Upon review I think the frame probably does not match the "27":


Robert P.

...but the core in the pinback definitely does.