East German Helmets

[Peter_Suciu]

I saw this on eBay and was thinking about buying it. The price seems a bit high but you don't see these early M53 helmets. The only thing is...it appears a little different from the other ones I've seen.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Anyone have an M53 with the M31 style liner like the one for sale on eBay? I want to make sure someone didn't take a $10 East German helmet and put in a $30 M31 fake liner to create something "rare."

[John F.]

Originally Posted by Peter_Suciu

... I want to make sure someone didn't take a $10 East German helmet and put in a $30 M31 fake liner to create something "rare."

Come on Peter, that sort of thing would never happen on eBay .

I have heard that there is some sort of controversy over East German helmets both with the Model 1 and 2 variants, but couldn’t tell you exactly what it is. However, this is a Model 1 that is offered by Gowen Militaria http://www.gowenmilitaria.com/ that is selling for $95.

Hope this helps.

John

[tony james]

hi peter
the helmet on ebay looks legit.the M31 style liner was used from 1956
to 1965 and after that they changed over to the new liner which eliminated
the external rivets on the shell . i've never seen a early liner for sale since the
wall fell so i would say this is a safe buy.the helmet net is also early issue.you
will find early helmets with the external rivets still intact but with a newer style
liner and repaint as this was done by the east germans .the price is a little high
and if you look around you could find another a little cheaper but its still a nice
lid.

tony

[olivyaya]

my case study on DDR M56 steel helmets
http://sites.estvideo.net/cold-war/c...sque-lourd.htm
and plastic ones
http://sites.estvideo.net/cold-war/c...que-parade.htm

[Joe]

Did'nt the very 1st issue M56 have a single chinstrap? Similar to the WWII chinstrap. Joe

[tony james]

hi joe
i've only ever come across 3 pictures of a single strap helmet being worn.
one thing i,ve noticed about these type of helmets is the rivet location.the
rivet head appers to be the same size as a whermacht helmet and the location of the rivets on the helmet ( lower down the sides ) would seem to indicate a WWII liner. a possible secenerio : WWII produced???


tony

[J Howland]

Originally Posted by tony james

hi joe
i've only ever come across 3 pictures of a single strap helmet being worn.
one thing i,ve noticed about these type of helmets is the rivet location.the
rivet head appers to be the same size as a whermacht helmet and the location of the rivets on the helmet ( lower down the sides ) would seem to indicate a WWII liner. a possible secenerio : WWII produced???


tony

I don't know about "WW II produced," but I do remember reading 20 or 25 years ago that the classic NVA helmet design was actually developed as a prototype before the fall of the IIIrd Reich.

Jim

[Peter_Suciu]

Originally Posted by J Howland

I don't know about "WW II produced," but I do remember reading 20 or 25 years ago that the classic NVA helmet design was actually developed as a prototype before the fall of the IIIrd Reich.

I do not believe there actually produced. There are some examples shown in Baer's book but I think these were one-off and did not survive.

I also saw another early NVA helmet:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Did the decals appear on these early helmets. I can't read the seller's description.

[tony james]

perhaps not WWII produced but remember the east germans fired up the same factory using the same engineer who worked on the WWII project in which they had already run their tests on this helmet.it seems they would have had to make up more than one helmet to run ballistics tests, small arms ,arty and grenade frag tests etc.it could be possible that the very first helmets issued were left over parts made in 44/45 . speculation ?yes . posisible ? maybe. if one of these helmets should turn up it would be interesting to check out the liner for WWII markings and dates.

tony

[Frank Schneider]

Tony,

I've been told that the helmet used by the NVA was actually designed in the Third Reich, as a further simplification of the manufacturing process. The M35 was simplified into the M40 (no washers in vent holes), which then was simplified into the M42 (no rolled edge). It still has the basic form of the German WWII helmet. But it did not get further than the prototype stage. East Germany then adopted the helmet design for it's forces.

Frank.

[DaveM]

hi Peter

decals did appear on the early NVA helmets...there is the occasional helmet up on ebay.com/ebay.de with one
Dave

[Mike G.]

Originally Posted by DaveM

hi Peter

decals did appear on the early NVA and KVP helmets...there is the occasional helmet up on ebay.com/ebay.de with one
Dave

As Dave remarked, decals indeed appeared on the very early issue Stahlhelm helmets. Most helmets were absent of decals. However, some NVA Army and a very very few Volksmarine helmets had the Tri-color Black, Red, Gold shield. In some rare instances, this emblem was painted on, and was not a decal.

Just a couple of years ago, about 200 "50s era" Stahlhelms were discovered in a basement of an old DDR Police Building in Strausberg, that was going to be "Razed". Upon unboxing the helmets, it was discovered they had police decals on them. Occasionally, an example of this type helmet will appear on ebay.de. They are real and lately, collectors have found photographic evidence to support the exhistence of these helmets.

The problem with these 50s era DDR Police Helmets is that one German Seller often sells replica memorabilia on his website (he represents it to be replica - so no problem there). Unfortunately, these very same Police Decals are one of the replica items he sells. I have seen unscrupulous Sellers on Ebay.de attempt to pass off 50s era Stahlhelms with the replica decal affixed to them, to drive up the value. It is unfortunate that this sometimes occurs. The same applies to the Tri-color shield decal. So you have to be very careful with your money. These helmets ain't cheap.

[DaveM]

Thank You Michael....

Caveat Emptor

[David H]

Here are a few helmet pictures for reference

1. Army helmet with Decal, original. (these have been copied, but still don't look right, yet, luckily!)

[David H]

2. Police helmet with decal, original. ( These have been quite heavily faked already, but again they just aren't right. ie. colour & texture ) I can't tell if the one on ebay listed above is original or not, because the pictures are so fuzzy!!! gut feeling is not good, but I would like to see a better picture.