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10x50 Binocs
Old 10-05-2011, 07:57 PM   #1
Vix Steel
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Default 10x50 Binocs

Hi guys.
I have a lead on these binocs and just wanted to make sure theyre ww2 period. If someone could please check the serial #? maybe its more obvious than that but Im no expert in optics.

The carry strap for the case is gone and the binocs have a broken post where the strap would be looped. Since these are somewhat rough anyone care to offer their opinion of value for me?

Thanx!

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Hensoldt 10x50 Dialyt #35056
Old 10-05-2011, 11:58 PM   #2
Stew
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Default Hensoldt 10x50 Dialyt #35056

the serial number is very low (5 digits) .Most recorded examples in collector records are not in the Dialyt series but in the Dienstglas 6 digit series. By the end of the war the bmj Dienstglas series of 10x50 roof prism were up to # 600,000 I don't understand the relationship between Hensoldt ( roof prism) Dialyt (the Hensoldt commercial name) and Hensoldt/bmj (roof prism) Dienstglas (the Hensoldt military contract name) because they can both appear in military spec (individual eye focus ) Often the Dialyt can appear with a civilian spec (with centre focus). I am not sure that you can relate this specific Hensoldt Dialyt 10x50 to a year of production . I am guessing here but based on production features this set of binoculars was made before 1941 (when Hensoldt changed to the 3 letter bmj code).
The case looks good . Is there a date on the inside lid of the case or on the case lid fastener? The case alone is worth about $120-150 The binoculars are about 150-250. To a limited extent on Ebay the value of the binoculars are determined by the internal condition - what is the condition of the optics?Out of colimation and cloudy? Chipped prisms? Do they have a reticle?. Outwardly, the binoculars are not in bad shape perhaps better than average.
In my personal opinion the Hensoldt roof prism 10x50 is not as robust and does not perform optically as well as the Porro 1 prism system as found on Zeiss 10x50 Dienstglas or Leitz 10x50 Dienstglas. However the Hensoldt Dialyt roof prism is a very interesting 10x50 variant .

Last edited by Stew; 10-06-2011 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:02 AM   #3
Vix Steel
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Thanx Stew, I was hoping theyre war time but wasnt sure. Not sure the condition of the optics but I think theyre clear and ok. If the sellers offer still stands I think I will grab this set.
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Old 10-06-2011, 11:08 AM   #4
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I agree with the opinion and summary above except for one suggestion and that is I believe these lower (I have examples ranging from maybe 10,000 -about 40,000 of these individual focus non-coded 10x50 AND 7x56 Hensoldt types) serial number range are from maybe 1942-1945. I say this because ALL case hardware latches that I have seen with these (several dozen examples) have been dated 42-44.

Several different finishes have been noted on this serial range (covered, black rice crinkle, and tan....maybe others.) the cases ALL have the loop and post strap fittings and not the swivel fittings of the 6 digit ranges....non are WaA stamped.

I don't know what organization these were made for....but I don't think that they were HEER contract. My guess is that they were contracted for private sales to military officers buying their binos rather than signing for issue pairs....officers did both.

I would like to find more information on this variety.

I do believe that they are mid to late war.
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Old 10-06-2011, 02:21 PM   #5
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Thank you for the info! I think my price on these is fair enough were I might grab them still. I dont know if the clasp on the case is marked 42 or 43 or even at all but I will assume so.
Thanx!
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Hensoldt Dialyt 10x50
Old 10-06-2011, 02:46 PM   #6
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Default Hensoldt Dialyt 10x50

Hi pchild and Vix Steel,
perhaps another explanation for Hensoldt using their commercial name and trade mark on a early WW2 military spec binocular here is that it may have been made for a foreign contract such as Romania or Finland. It was standard practise at this time for example Carl Zeiss ,and Busch to use there commerial names and logos on binoculars for such foreign contracts. One point of difference is that CZ and Busch serial numbers on their foreign export orders were part of the same series as found on their Heer contract serial numbers . For instance I have a set of Finnish marked Busch 6x30 binoculars with the Busch commercial logo on the left prism cover and on the right side prism cover they have the trade name SOLLUXON and the serial number 377226. This serial number is within the approximate serial number range of Heer 6x30 which have identical physical features eg black textured paint finish on the case.
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Old 10-06-2011, 06:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew View Post
Hi pchild and Vix Steel,
perhaps another explanation for Hensoldt using their commercial name and trade mark on a early WW2 military spec binocular here is that it may have been made for a foreign contract such as Romania or Finland. It was standard practise at this time for example Carl Zeiss ,and Busch to use there commerial names and logos on binoculars for such foreign contracts. One point of difference is that CZ and Busch serial numbers on their foreign export orders were part of the same series as found on their Heer contract serial numbers . For instance I have a set of Finnish marked Busch 6x30 binoculars with the Busch commercial logo on the left prism cover and on the right side prism cover they have the trade name SOLLUXON and the serial number 377226. This serial number is within the approximate serial number range of Heer 6x30 which have identical physical features eg black textured paint finish on the case.

Stew, You may be right, but if they were made for a foreign contract it seems that not many were delivered as I have found many of these out of vet estates or with other solid GI connections.

I have long wondered if they would have been post war assembled out of left over parts and material by Hensoldt to be sold to the GI's circa 45-47 or so....but I have pretty much dismissed that as a likely case with these.

Optics contracted for para military, SS (before they got Heer allocations) police and targeted to private military officers.....many owned there own Binoculars and they were not coded or Dienstglas marked, were all maker name or logo marked and not Dienstglas marked either.

I'm not 100% on these Hensoldts in the under 40K range....but they strike me as a parallel numbering for non military contract (but destined for military use and made to the specs) to keep the number ranges seperate.

I can also tell you that within that 40,000 (or so) range the various models are found in sub-ranges. For example say the all 10x50 power will be found in the 11000-14000 and the 18000-23000 range and all 7x56 will be only in the 15000-18000 and the 33000-38000 range...just made up examples, but they made runs of types within the range of 40,000 based on my notes from several dozen pairs of these that I have recorded.
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Hensoldt Dialyt 10x50 35056
Old 10-06-2011, 09:40 PM   #8
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Default Hensoldt Dialyt 10x50 35056

Hi pchild,
thanks for sharing those observations above.
One set of Hensoldt Dialyt 10x50 currently on offer on US Ebay is a difficult piece to fit into the Hensoldt jigsaw . I attach a link .It is tan couloured (standard camouflage paint Europe ) but its serial number is 27682. Based on its configuration it would appear to be mid to late war in spec but it has an earlier serial number to the leatherette covered (early war spec) example under discussion.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Hensold...item3cbcbeb082
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew View Post
Hi pchild,
thanks for sharing those observations above.
One set of Hensoldt Dialyt 10x50 currently on offer on US Ebay is a difficult piece to fit into the Hensoldt jigsaw . I attach a link .It is tan couloured (standard camouflage paint Europe ) but its serial number is 27682. Based on its configuration it would appear to be mid to late war in spec but it has an earlier serial number to the leatherette covered (early war spec) example under discussion.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Hensold...item3cbcbeb082
I should have added to my first post when mentioning the various finishes that I have seen on these that there seems to be no rime or reason as to the date they were made and the type of finish or used of covering that was used. It may be simply that various colors, textures or the use of covering was offered for customer choice....I don't know.

I checked a few pair like these that I own and found that my 10x50 set is also covered just like the onese in this thread and is serial numbered about 150 numbers higher than these....so probably made a week or two away from these. The latch on mine are 44 dated...case seems orignal to the glasses as well....

I also have a set of 7x56 that are in the 20,000 range that are rough sand (probably alum. oxide) added to flat black paint...the finish seems 100% factory applied....this 20,000 range set has a case latch dated 42.

If we guessed that the sets above were made about 18 months a part based on the latch dates and taking an average...then maybe about 10,000 set per year were being produced from the distinct low serial range.

I also have some sets of the Bmj coded types in the hundreds of thousands range and again based on the latch dates and the dates stamped in the case tops.....both serial ranges were being produced at the same time.
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Hensoldt Dialyt
Old 10-07-2011, 05:59 PM   #10
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Default Hensoldt Dialyt

Hi phild,
thanks for the further comments.I noted that my earlier reference to the tan Hensoldt Dialyt (link above) was incorrect it is in fact #22682 .
While still on the Hensoldt roof prism nomenclature topic - I have recently noted that some of the military contract bmj 10x50 series do not include the usual "Dienstglas 10x50 " but "D.F 10x50 "
I understand the meaning of D.F. (Doppel-Fernrohr), and note it common use for German military binoculars in WW1 and pre the "Dienstglas" period . However this nomenclature in the 1944-5 period does seem a bit random....?
What do you think?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WW11-GERMA...item45fd933794
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:53 PM   #11
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I did not notice the error on you serial number post when I checked the ebay link, but your point is still valid....that it is odd to have a ordnance tan painted set that is 13k numbers lower than a covered set....generally the paint replaced the earlier style of covering the tubes.

As for the last set that you linked to, I can say that I have never seen an issue case like that. That aside, the serial number is very high. I will check but I think that it is near the end of wartime production.
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Old 10-07-2011, 07:55 PM   #12
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the number appears to read 589289 ? This is one of the high serial numbers
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Old 10-07-2011, 11:21 PM   #13
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You have may have seen this thread at : http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=37513

The highest bmj number that I saw there was in the very 589xxx range, so I would think that it would be near the end of Hensoldt production during the war.
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