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Heil Hitler. Ludendorff. V. Grafe - Opinion?
Old 06-08-2010, 05:49 AM   #1
milanche
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Question Heil Hitler. Ludendorff. V. Grafe - Opinion?

Hello,

I have not seen many of this badges at the forum, so I will ask for opinion on this one.
At front is written "Heil Hitler. Ludendorff. V. Grafe" with swastika at the center, and on the back there is RZM and M1/73 markings at the top and GES.GESCH. at the bottom.
What do you think, is this a genuine pin?

Thank you

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Back
Old 06-08-2010, 05:50 AM   #2
milanche
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Default Back

Back of the pin

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Old 06-08-2010, 08:31 AM   #3
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Most people don't like it. Should be a pre RZM pin, (before late '34-'35).
Some will argue it is a commemorative pin. Most really don't think so.
John
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Old 06-08-2010, 09:42 AM   #4
Terry OToole
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don t like it i m afraid ,
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:08 PM   #5
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I also don't like it. The M1/73 back is also common to a lot of recent fakes (the ones smart enough to not use the clipped pinplate and now use a more believable round one).

The enamel work is modern - you can see the sunken red field around the letters near the top. That is common to modern soft enamel techniques and not used in the WWII and before period.

I also don't believe in the RZM-marked pieces of "supporter" badges - too late for the period.
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Old 06-08-2010, 12:31 PM   #6
Wim Vangossum
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At that very moment, when this RZM badge was supposed to be made, they already diden't like Ludendorf no more. No chance the NSDAP allowed to produce this badge.

Regards, Wim
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Old 06-08-2010, 01:42 PM   #7
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Not genuine, a very believable fantasy item.
I wouldn't mind having one, wouldn't pay more than $25 tho.
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I concur
Old 07-04-2011, 11:04 AM   #8
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Default I concur

You can buy at least 5 of these in any big show. But the real ones are exceedingly rare.
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Fake
Old 07-04-2011, 11:11 AM   #9
Kyle Harrington
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Default Fake

The badge did not exist, modern make believe I am afraid.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:47 PM   #10
Wim Vangossum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Harrington View Post
The badge did not exist, modern make believe I am afraid.

It does exist, but it's extremely rare.


Regards, Wim



Freedom is not for Free
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Old 07-04-2011, 06:20 PM   #11
Gary Symonds
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Ludendorf had long broke with Hitler by the 1934-35 period, calling Hitler a "sinister individual", who would lead Germany into an "unprecedented catastrophe".

Therefore, how could such a "sympathy" badge exist?
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11 years of Experts and this is where we are
Old 07-04-2011, 08:32 PM   #12
Jo Rivett
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Default 11 years of Experts and this is where we are

WAF has been up and running for more than 10 years now, with "experts" in all fields, and THIS is the level that it is at now in 2011 ? No real, ordered and easily accessible information for those searching, and so threads like this reappear, and reappear and reappear...

This badge most certainly did exist, it had little to do with the NSDAP though. It was made, in a limited amount, when the NSFP changed into the NSFB around October/November 1924. a full 9 years before any badges were RZM marked. I say limited amount, taking the member-count of the NSFB into consideration, taking into consideration that it was still not allowed to wear this badge in Public in 1924 and taking into account that only 3 Originals are known to-date, all being the same in design. And last but not least, taking History into account, the Law suit between Hitler and Albrecht von Graefe from 1925 onwards and the NSDAPs stance towards Ludendorff after June 1924.

Those who say the Ludendorff badge is:
Fantasy = Need to start taking an Interest in History before they post, or Realize that they dont know anything about that early time period and refrain from posting.
That the RZM marked Ludendorff is Genuine = Need to find another Hobby

Moderators who are responsible for this Section, really need to start doing their job properly, and Assemble some form of Order here, so that just maybe, when, every week, people consider posting these kinds of items, they would first be directed to a Thread about them on a search, and find all the Information they are looking for, saving web-space, saving silly comments and posts that could be used later on for people looking for information.
Lots of Sticky threads of peoples nice collections, albeit sometimes full of fakes, but no real sticky thread here containing properly researched, and usable information.

Last edited by Jo Rivett; 07-04-2011 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:24 AM   #13
Don Scowen
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Jo & Wim are correct the badge did exist, & it was even shown in a period manufacturer's catalogue at one point.

Cheers
Don
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Scowen View Post
Jo & Wim are correct the badge did exist, & it was even shown in a period manufacturer's catalogue at one point.

Cheers
Don
Don, the reason that it is shown in this 1926 Catalog, months after the NSDAP was reformed and united, is simple. When we look at other catalogs like the 1935 Richter Fahnenfabrik catalog, we find badges and items that were abandoned years before still for sale with old descriptions, so it was just a companies Refreshed catalog with older pics included. In other words, there was no way that this Ludendorff badge would have been allowed to have been worn by NSDAP members after the NSDAP was reformed. So although it may well have been worn by "NSDAP" members in 1924, we have to remember that the NSFP/NSFB were made up from NSDAP seeing as the NSDAP was banned then. History also tells us that the Feud between Ludendorff, Röhm and Hitler from 1924 was not related fully to NSDAP members during that time whilst he was still in prison, and that Röhm and Ludendorff were still portraying the image that Hitler was all for the NSFP/NSFB and approved of their (Röhm & Ludendorff) attempt to unite all NS orientated parties under one roof. So the NSDAP members who wore it, were deluded

Up until that chappy posted one a few months back, i knew of only 2 originals. I wouldn't mind getting my paws on a better condition one than i have, but i don't think that will happen, and if it did, i don't think i would have the spare cash for it either. C’est la vie
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Old 06-06-2012, 11:32 PM   #15
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Well,........I don't know what to say, i have just purchased one exactly like the one previously shown. Is it real or was it fantasy? I am going to take a photo of mine as the scanned image was rather crapy. My digital 35mm camera is making a mockery out of me and refusing to do as it's told.So saying all that, is this a real item? (As i don't like it when someone tell's me that i am buying authentic Third Reich Items etc) HELP ?? My badge does not have the clipped pin plate and the enamel looks identical to another RZM badge that i have.

Last edited by Helene; 06-06-2012 at 11:46 PM. Reason: more info
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