BRD visors

[Flecktarn]

Hi guys,

I'm a German WW2 collector myself, but do like some of the early BRD stuff!
I do know nothing about BRD stuff, so I wanted to ask you guys for help...

I might be interested in the following two visors on 'Militaria-Agent':

Army Officers visor: https://www.militaria-agent.com/cata...OX_1950TH.html

Luftwaffe Officiers visor: https://www.militaria-agent.com/cata...VISOR_HAT.html

First of all, are they original? And secondly from which period are they? They look quite early BRD to me, maybe 1950's?
And finally, is the price okay for those two?

You would help me out a lot guys, thanks in advance!

Flecktarn!

[SprogCollector]

Hi Flecktarn,
Welcome to BRD!

Officer caps (Heer and Luftwaffe) prior to 1962 had the same plain black visors as the enlisted caps. Here's a pair of Luftwaffe caps I have. Notice the different visors. The cap on the left is mid-1960s while the one on the right is undated but very clearly has the pre-1962 style visor.



The Heer cap in your link is for a field grade officer (denoted by the oak leaves on the visor) and looks to me to be made from a lightweight fabric. Very difficult to estimate age. My initial reaction to it was probably from the 1970s. The seller has another field grade officer cap listed that's dated 1962 for E$45 and looks to be in better condition.

I personally think the prices are a bit high. You can still find early post-1962 caps easily with some diligent searching.

[Flecktarn]

Thank you very much!

The other Heer visor looks much better indeed and is dated inside...

I've been searching for some days now, but it really is hard to find early BRD stuff, though!
Do you guys have some webshops or links where they sell it? German (European) dealers are preferred...

Could someone find me a decent Heer & Luftwaffe officers visor from prior 1960's?

I'm really not into this stuff, so your help is very appreciated!

Thanks a lot for your help again!

Flecktarn

[LuckyStrike23]

I dont know any fakes of BW stuff - so the caps are original, but much to expansiv in my opinion.

Here is the first officer cap, which was worn between 1956 and approximately 1962. It is quite rare, but i paid only 50€ for it (2 years ago).

[LuckyStrike23]

This is the second one between 1962 and today (Lt - Cpt), note that these caps are today much brighter than in the 1960´s:

[LuckyStrike23]

and here the model for staff officers - both caps cost about 10€ at german ebay:

[Gordon Craig]

Flektarn,

I'd like to echo the previous comments. The caps you posted have interesting labels but are not in good condition, probably from poor storage, and are way overpriced.
Some hints that may help you date labels. KKB made most of the BW stuff and this an early mark they used up until the mid 60s. Then they changed their markings to KKBw. No one appears to be exactly sure when this change took place.
As for where to buy early BW stuff, ebay.de is where most of us shop. Of course those of us who have been at this for a while have our own sources. The info posted by the other contributors to this thread should give you good guidance in buying an early BW hat and the price to pay.
Interest in early BW items has really increased recently and the prices are bginning to reflect this interest. Now is certainly a good time to buy.

Regards,

Gordon

[Flecktarn]

Guys,

Thanks so much!
Yes, I also thought buying them now could be a good investment for the future... Today, one can find some cool stuff for not much money.

But it's ofcourse also because I like some of the BW visors very much. Their design is quite similar to WW2 visors... I don't find DDR stuff attractive at all!

I'll have a good look on Ebay.de and try to use your tips! Thanks so far...

Flecktarn!

[Flecktarn]

Did some searching on Ebay.de but you only find crap... There are maybe 5 visors between 1965 and 1970 and further only 80's and 90's...

They also don't seem to take pictures of the inside, so you can't check if it's a KKb or a KKBw...

Are there any pre 1965 out there? Aren't there any good dealers?

I don't want to buy all kind of stuff behin your backs, I would just like to have to nice early BW officers visors (Heer & Luftwaffe) in a decent size.
Though it seems to be quite hard...

Flecktarn!

[LuckyStrike23]

BW-stuff isnt as rare as you might think. The big military dealer dont deal with it, because its to cheap and there are to few collectors. But you find a lot of shops and other dealers, here is one for example:

http://www.stephan.de/us/us_frame.html

Most of them sell via ebay too. If you observe ebay.de, you will find everything you want for a resonable price.

[SprogCollector]

You'll find the early BW stuff to be quite elusive. It took me about 6 months to get my pre-1962 LW visor. You'll need to be patient. These caps are now 50 years old and were only used for a very brief period of time.

[LuckyStrike23]

Originally Posted by SprogCollector

You'll find the early BW stuff to be quite elusive. It took me about 6 months to get my pre-1962 LW visor. You'll need to be patient. These caps are now 50 years old and were only used for a very brief period of time.

Yes you are right - the earlier the rarer. Mine and your pre 1962 cap is acctually the second pattern. The first pattern was in what we call here "Tellerform" in opposite to the "Sattelform" and it was used only a few month.

[Flecktarn]

Thanks again! Yes, I'll need to be patient, hehe...
Saw something nice already on E-bay, so let's see!

Is BRD being collected as much as DDR stuff? And do you guys notice that the prices are rising? Think it will be a very expensive hobby in let's say 20 years?

I'll keep you informed! Flecktarn!

[Gordon Craig]

Flecktarn,

It is hard to say if collecting BRD stuff has caught up to DDR stuff yet. I don't think so but it could do that soon. The publishing of new reference books on the 50th anniversary of the Bundeswehr and the start of this forum should see an increase in BW collectors.
One area that has already seen a large increase in prices is in the 1957 awards. Early issue 1957 Knights Crosses are now in the US$800.00 range and climbing. 1957 ribbon bars for Wehrmacht Knights Cross winners are also climbing in price. The early visors command the highest prices for two reasons;
1-they were only used for a few years;
2-many were coverted to Third Reich visors to increase their value reducing the number available.
Glad to see you join us in appreciating BW items. Good luck in your hunt.

Regards,

Gordon

[Sergeant 08]

Here is a more expensive and rarer cap!

I think it was sold for more than 150 Euro on ebay.