Best infantry rifle of WWII?

[wags]

Originally Posted by jbc98k

I am really suprised the M1 Garand is winning.
30 round mag that can be topped off vs 8 round clip that can not be topped off
Select fire vs semi auto only
Intermediate round that the soldier could carry more of and control on full auto
STG44 stamped steel construction that was relatively cheap and easy to produce
Both are reliable weapons, but any 65 year old weapon could be a little finky in the hands of a civilian shooter.
Ever have the M1 thumb?
I do like the M1 Garand, its a great semi auto battle rifle that gave the US soldier a powerful tool against the axis. However the STG44 was ahead of its time, and the assault rifle continues to prove itself as the standard rifle on battlefields in the 21st century. On a bench rest at 500 meters + the M1 Garand has the edge but on a WWII battlefield I would want my troops equipped with assault rifles. The STG44 just has too many advantages over the M1 Garand to be ignored on this poll. I want a recount!

I have to agree with the above posting 100%.
There just seems there is too much 'e-motion' when it comes to the Garand.

Say this: your going into hostile combat conditions...which weapon would you choose the Garand or Stg-44? Lets see...how many times can you fire before you need to reload? How long does reloading take? How much ammo can you carry given the same weight? Does one rifle give a distinct sound when it is empty? Can you reload a partial magazine quickly to a full mag?
I could go on.
But I know which one I would grab.

-wagner-

[bodes]

Originally Posted by wags

I have to agree with the above posting 100%.
There just seems there is too much 'e-motion' when it comes to the Garand.

Say this: your going into hostile combat conditions...which weapon would you choose the Garand or Stg-44? Lets see...how many times can you fire before you need to reload? How long does reloading take? How much ammo can you carry given the same weight? Does one rifle give a distinct sound when it is empty? Can you reload a partial magazine quickly to a full mag?
I could go on.
But I know which one I would grab.

-wagner-

Wagner, I'd say your argument would hold some water IF the vast majority of the world's forces carried "assault weapons".......However, the majority of the world's fighting men were issued bolt-action rifles and not assault rifles......So, when it came to the basic fighting rifle, the garand was unquestionably superior.....

Also, do not forget the WW2 designed assault weapons pretty much died out following the war.....Yes, they saw some action in Yugoslavia and the rest of eastern Europe, but were quickly replaced by the AK-47......The Kalashnikov was of different design and superior to that of Germany's.....The garand on the other hand, was designed in 1929, accepted by the US Army in 1936, and saw action up into Viet Nam and beyond.....Very much a proven infantry weapon.....Bodes

[jbc98k]

"Wagner, I'd say your argument would hold some water IF the vast majority of the world's forces carried "assault weapons".......However, the majority of the world's fighting men were issued bolt-action rifles and not assault rifles......So, when it came to the basic fighting rifle, the garand was unquestionably superior....."

Bodes I am not really sure I am following you on this one. Are you saying the assault rifle is not an infantry rifle so it should not be included on this poll? The Germans were trying to make the STG44 the basic fighting rifle toward the end of 1944, they just bumped into a few problems before they could finnish the task. As far as the M1 Garand being an older design that was still around during the Vietnam war, just because something is an older design does not make it better. The AK47 was a different design but it is like the STG44 a true assault rifle. Intermediate cartridge, high capacity mag, and select fire. The three item I just mention makes the STG44 the best rifle of WWII. As I mentioned the Germans were trying to make the STG44 their standard rifle so my vote remains with the STG44.

[bodes]

Originally Posted by jbc98k

Bodes I am not really sure I am following you on this one. Are you saying the assault rifle is not an infantry rifle so it should not be included on this poll?

It's an infantry rifle, however not all infantry rifles are "assault rifles"......Today's definition of an assault weapon is a high capacity magazine rifle which uses a intermediate round and has select fire capabilities.....As stated before, apples and oranges......Bodes

[jbc98k]

Excellent Bodes! we agree on what an assault rifle is and the STG44 was a rifle that was ahead of its time and had many advantages over the M1Garand.

[bodes]

Originally Posted by jbc98k

Excellent Bodes! we agree on what an assault rifle is and the STG44 was a rifle that was ahead of its time and had many advantages over the M1Garand.

[jbc98k]

Originally Posted by bodes

[Robbi]

Anyone like the BAR as much as I do?

[Finnishlion142]

"In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine"
-Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

My vote is for the STG 44.

[pitfighter]

The FG42 was a sensational gamble.
There are several reasons I think it was an outstanding weapon for it's era.
It was a select fire package that weighed the same, and was as short as or shorter than most intermediary round assault weapons, but the FG42 fired the full power 7.92mm round.

It fed from a 20 round box mag, but the mag was horizontal, so did not affect your prone silhouette height. Some have said this weight could throw off your aim, they are correct that it may lopside the rifle slightly if you limp wrist it, as if you were an eleven year old girl, and even then, it shouldn't throw off your aim.

It fired from the closed bolt in semi for greater accuracy, but open bolt when fully automatic was engaged, so less chance of a cook off.

It had an integral bipod and bayonet, full automatic prone from bipod position was very steady.

It had an advanced muzzle brake, to deal with the hi power cartridge's recoil.

It also had a reciprocating stock.

The sights are fold away, much like current combat assault weapons.

Spectacularly simple to disassemble and clean.

I feel the FG42 was a magnificent experiment, years ahead of it's time, that took a very typically Luftwaffe, hyper pragmatic approach to the assessment and design of a battlefield weapon.
Instead of issuing your troop intermediary round assault weapons and one or two GPMGs, you had the option of having every man carry a form of hybrid intermediary GPMG.
I think in time they would have designed a way for the FG to accept MG42 belts as well as mags, with a slightly more robust or quick change barrel.
(no more rifles, smgs, assault weapons or gpmgs)

I think the weapon would have become a major success, if certain political and military decisions hadn't lessened the importance of the FJ trooper in general.

The FG was clearly a source of inspiration for the M60 gmpg in later years.

Jesse.

[Messheresmit]

Originally Posted by Matt Weber

Man those are awesome photos of the Stg44!

So far no real surprises on this poll. The M1 Garand was definately an excellent all-around rifle. It doesn' surprise me at all that it has the most votes right now.

However, I voted for the Stg44 as well. It was years ahead of its' time. It was easier to produce, had a 30 round magazine, selective fire, was impervious to the elements, and is the for-runner for all modern military service rifles.

Matt

Hi.

My opinion is the same.

Regards.

[Crossfire]

While I agree that the late 'Assault Rifle' types were ahead of their time in design and concept, in reality they did not live up to expectations. Soldiers were instructed not to use full auto etc because of the flimsy construction and poor quality materials. While the older bolt actions were obsolete, heavy and slow to use, they were very well made and ultra reliable !!

[GUNHEEP]

Although the mp44 proved to be the forerunner of the modern day assult rifle..i myself have owned six at one time in the past...we are talking about the best rifle of WWII...and that would be the M1 garand..if the germans were armed with mp44's as we were armed with M1 garands? Then we would probally be speaking german and not being able to own any firearms or gun forums for that matter...
The M1 garand gave the world freedom and made the world what it is today..and that is why it is THE BEST RIFLE OF WWII....


Happy Memorial Day
Andy

[pitfighter]

Good post, Andy -


Pit.
I think the winning and losing of WW2 boiled down to a more complex set of circumstances than the quality of personal infantry arms, but I like the way you think.

[mdk220]

STG44 then the M1 - just think if the german soldier was able to use this gun earlier then Mr Hitler allowed them. I have a 1943 M1 and it is a great rifle but 8 rounds compared to 30 - I would take the 30 rds any day. Also the germans were bombed and getting the MP44 then the STG44 was an big effort!

Another thing is the M1 was heavier then the stg44 so the soldier could carry more rounds too!!