Ivan Demjanjuk ID

[PzV]

I must say that I find it curious that "SS Hauptsturmführer" is actually published on both ID cards as rank can vary and the documentation is not always signed by the same person. Was only an SS Hauptsturmführer authorized to sign these cards??? This does not seem right to me and when I look at my other documentations this is almost never the case.

[Stormfighter]

PzV,

You make a very good point. The SS=Stammrollen=Auszug that Hans posted shows that Streibel was promoted to Hauptsturmfuehrer on 10 September 1939 and gives no further promotions. Usually, an officer could expect to receive a promotion within a year or two. I imagine that Streibel could have been a Major by 1941, well before Demjanjuk showed up at Trawniki. Again, we need to know more about Streibel. I plan to ask a friend if Streibel's personnel file is on file at the National Archives. It does seem quite odd that Streibel's rank was "locked into" that of a Hauptsturmfuehrer on the card, but if he indeed was promoted after the IDs were printed, he, of course, could have struck out the rank and written in his current one, which was often done on Third Reich documents. I'll do a little more research and post the dates when Streibel was assigned to Trawniki. You really have me curious now. We need to find out when Streibel's further promotions were.

[Stormfighter]

Okay, I did some more research on Streibel. As mentioned above, Streibel was promoted to Hauptsturmfuehrer on 10 September 1939. Two years later, at which time he was assigned to Trawniki, he still held this rank. Here is a statement from a Web site that mentions his assignment to Trawniki:

On October 27, 1941, Globocnik appointed SS Captain Karl Streibel to command the newly christened Trawniki training camp, a position Streibel held until the evacuation of the camp in July 1944.

I have the Dienstalterliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP (Rank Seniority List of the SS of the NSDAP) of 1 October 1944 and Streibel is listed in it. It shows that he was promoted to Sturmbannfuehrer (Major) on 20 April 1942. Taking this into account, the Trawniki IDs would have had to have been printed between October 1941 and April 1942 and were apparently issued to Demjanjuk and Gamaschkow before 20 April 1942. As PzV mentioned, it does seem odd that a rank would be printed directly on the card, but I guess that's what they did. After 20 April 1942, we have to assume that Streibel was striking out the Hauptsturmfuehrer rank and adding Sturmbannfuehrer. Or who knows, maybe after his promotion a whole new batch of cards were printed with his new rank.

[T.K.]

Hello Stormfighter,

Very interesting thread, thanks for start it.
If I have to tell you my opinion, I would say that I would refuse to buy such ID's if they were offered to me.
Seems very crude to me and I don't know if they are fakes but for sure they are a bit suspicious to my eyes.

Best Regards

[Stormfighter]

T.K., I agree with you. The IDs are very crudely produced and I can see why one would not be "comfortable" with them. Knowing that the Germans were sticklers for quality and standardization, these cards seem to be far from the norm. I can't help but to think what a Feldgendarmerie soldier or other authority who asked for Demjanjuk's, Sergej's or Gamaschkow's IDs would say when they saw them. They remind of me of some of the fake IDs that were produced by the British and Americans in German prisoner of war camps to use during escapes.

[T.K.]

Hello Stormfighter,

I agree with you 100%.

I have seen others, not KL related anyway, HSSPF Dienstausweis from others Operations Zones, Distrikts and Protektorat, and I have to say that they were ALWAYS very well done, very high quality standard.
So, this is the reason why, if I were a "Kettenhund", I would had shot the owners of such ID's straight away.

Best Regards

[Steve-Hoog]

Originally Posted by T.K.

So, this is the reason why, if I were a "Kettenhund", I would had shot the owners of such ID's straight away.

I have to say after reading this entire thread with great interest and then seeing this statement; it definitely produced a good chuckle on my part

[T.K.]

Storm, have you find any Streibel period signature?
I'm very curious to have a look.

By the way, Demjanjuk's lawyers are actually suggesting that the "ID Card" supplied by the KGB is a fake.

I would like to hear what Hundestaffel thinks about this ID.

[Hundestaffel]

T.K.:

My days of posting specific facts and / or attributes associated with with certain kinds of documents on this Forum (but not in private) have come to an end (although compliments on fine documents will still be given).

For the large part, if you take the time and effort here to post facts that clearly refute someone else's (mis)understandings or doubts in regards to certain issues, your thankx (due to a bruised ego) on this Forum is absolutely Zero (Interestingly, there was a thread started about this a while back which is hugely ironic considering.......).

Unfortunately, 99.9 % of the Conversations here turn into "Must Win" (even if you have to "custom alter" the truth) Uber-Ego Competitions which honestly just get quite boring and uninteresting...sifting through 15 pages of meaningless ego-driven drivel isn't exactly Nirvana...

T.K. - we can always correspond about this Demjanjuk issue by way of e-mail if you so wish....


"Hundestaffel"

[T.K.]

I would love to.
Please write me via mail what you think about this ID.
You got me adress.

[deejay]

Demjanjuk died today (17 march 2012) in Germany.