wehrmacht awards


Go Back   Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums > Wehrmacht Era Militaria > Crosses of the Wehrmacht

Crosses of the Wehrmacht Iron Cross, German Cross, War Merit Cross and Spain Cross.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes

EK2 Fake - I think
Old 03-27-2009, 11:38 PM   #1
streptile
Lifetime Member
 
streptile's Avatar
 
streptile is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 16,006
Default EK2 Fake - I think

Hello WAF members:
I am a new member here. I've been collecting EKs for about 12 years. I have 2 known fakes in my collection, one of which was just identified yesterday with help from board members as a Latvian Schinkel.
This is another one that I am unsure about.
For years I discounted it as a fake, and I am still inclined to think it is. It's light and of rather poor workmanship.
If it's real, it's clearly a Schinkelform B-type. I believe there were some EK2 B-types without round 3's. One is shown in Forman's Guide, 2nd Edition, p.32 #18a. An EK1 without round 3 is shown in G. Williamson's "Iron Cross of 1939" on p.125.

Any thoughts or ideas will be most welcome.




The swastika is sort of rounded and indistinct, the date is low-ish and the "3" dips ever-so-slightly.







It is of proper 3-piece construction and the core is magnetic. The ribbon ring is open (unsoldered) and unmarked. The ribbon passes UV light-test (not that that means anything)




Here it is in between a Schinkel A-type and a standard late-war 1939 EK2, both from my collection.



Anyway, I also just wanted to introduce myself and this thread seemed as good a way as any. Please let me know what you all think of this cross. I'm looking forward to sharing some of the little gems from my EK collection with you all here, and learning from you all.

By the way, any of you with an interest in Imperial EKs, please stop by the other thread I've posted and offer your opinion of the cross there, too:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=346739

Thank you,
Trevor
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-28-2009, 04:07 AM   #2
grueni1208
Association Member
 
grueni1208's Avatar
 
grueni1208 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,396
Default

It's a post war production by Souval. Normally they have an own core design, but your version has the original Souval war-made core design.
The common core version is a two piece construction. I believe your war-version could be a one piece construction.

Fact is it's a post war production and for an "non-version" collector uninteresting, but for a hardcore EK-collector it's an interesting version.

Regards

Daniel
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMGP6349a.jpg (110.2 KB, 847 views)
__________________
Regards
Daniel


Search:
!!! all awards with [L/15] mark !!!
Otto Schickle
All early 57er pieces
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-28-2009, 04:09 AM   #3
grueni1208
Association Member
 
grueni1208's Avatar
 
grueni1208 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,396
Default

2
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMGP6322a.jpg (69.9 KB, 1092 views)
__________________
Regards
Daniel


Search:
!!! all awards with [L/15] mark !!!
Otto Schickle
All early 57er pieces
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-28-2009, 04:17 AM   #4
baldy1939
Member
 
baldy1939's Avatar
 
baldy1939 is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hell on Earth
Posts: 3,981
Default

I would just like to welcome you too the forum Trevor & wish to say that htis is a great forum with some real nice members here & also there is alot of knowledge to help newer collectors . You have just had one of the EK's big guns Daniel telling you about your EK & there are several more like him with a wealth of experiance on here . Happy collecting Mark
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-28-2009, 07:54 AM   #5
Roglebk
Member
 
Roglebk's Avatar
 
Roglebk is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,417
Default

Hi Trevor and welcome. That is a version i would love to have in my collection despite it being post war made, as you say the frames shape looks a lot like a Schinkel B.

Thanks for those pics Daniel, interesting to see that manufacturing method!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-28-2009, 09:49 AM   #6
Mike Yokum
Member
 
Mike Yokum's Avatar
 
Mike Yokum is offline
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Festung Nord Carolina
Posts: 3,658
Default

Welcome Trevor!
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-28-2009, 10:10 AM   #7
streptile
Lifetime Member
 
streptile's Avatar
 
streptile is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 16,006
Default

Thank you all for the information and the warm welcome.

It's interesting. I've long had 2 39EK2s that I've been unsure about.

One, which I thought was surely a rare original Schinkel A-type:

...turns out to be a well-known Latvian fake.

And this one, which has always been the runt of my litter, derided as a poor and worthless copy, turns out to be - if not exactly genuine - then at least somewhat, well, interesting.

I do have a couple questions, I guess for Daniel: How can you tell by looking at the photos that my version has the wartime core? Is the split-core non-magnetic?

Also, is there a consensus on whether or not this frame-type qualifies as a Schinkel B-type? And is this the same frame (made from the same tooling) that Souval TR-made crosses use?

Interestingly enough, the split-core version reminds me of the early experiments with the 1813 EK2: two thin cores sandwiching a beveled one-piece frame and attached with a lug through the center, ground-down and hidden in the oak leaf cluster.

I'm very happy to have found this board, as I've said. I've got some other nice non-questionable (as far as I know) pieces from 1870, 1914 and 1939 that I would love to share as I have the time to upload photos.

Thanks again!

Trevor
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-29-2009, 09:20 PM   #8
streptile
Lifetime Member
 
streptile's Avatar
 
streptile is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 16,006
Default

As a new member, I've been browsing through the threads. I can across this thread:
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=schinkel+EK1

...in which a member asks about the authenticity of this EK1:


To me, this piece looks like it's made from the exact same frame as mine... and I mean the exact same frame... look at the locator mark for the jump ring! Clearly an EK2 frame retasked.

Anyway, is this the same Souval postwar thing? The thread's responses just indicate that it's a fake.

Thanks,
Trevor

PS: And is this a Schinkel B-type?
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-30-2009, 04:09 AM   #9
grueni1208
Association Member
 
grueni1208's Avatar
 
grueni1208 is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 2,396
Default

Your EK I is the counterpart to the post war EK II.
Some of these crosses are with maker' mark L/58.

On frame you can see the mark for the loop ring.
Frames and cores were used for both productions (EK I and EK II)

Regards

Daniel
__________________
Regards
Daniel


Search:
!!! all awards with [L/15] mark !!!
Otto Schickle
All early 57er pieces
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump






vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright Wehrmacht-Awards.com