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Research From The Twilight Zone: Ribbon Bar From A Parallel Dimension
Old 10-10-2003, 09:23 PM   #1
Rick Research
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Default Research From The Twilight Zone: Ribbon Bar From A Parallel Dimension

This one appeared fleetingly some time back when it came to live at my Evil Twin's house. But it has now come to live at MINE, so... first simply the views, front and back.

Nothing up my sleeves! I withhold NO information not seen on this bar. What YOU see is... exactly what The Two Rickies saw.

But NOT what my Imperial Guru immediately saw.
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Old 10-10-2003, 09:27 PM   #2
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There are no "tricks" here. Well, at least not from ME. This is an original Imperial German ribbon bar.

A very good one for "teaching fishing." What do you "catch?" Be not afraid, for BELIEVE ME... nothing you will see here or think... did not cross my mind as I labored under false impressions for DAYS before enlightened by my personal collecting Jedi Master, at whose feet I am still but a humble apprentice.

Hints: work your way through each ribbon, one at a time. Remembering-- of course-- that not one single one of THESE ribbons belonged to...


just one single award!
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oooooooooooooooooooooo!
Old 10-10-2003, 09:29 PM   #3
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Exclamation oooooooooooooooooooooo!

The Master Approaches...........
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Old 10-10-2003, 09:30 PM   #4
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1 to 5) What is each award?
6) What sort of person would have HAD such awards?
7) What time period are we looking at, here?

And remember-- I had been going over this... ever since The Other Ricky first got it in!
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Old 10-11-2003, 12:21 PM   #5
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Come on people! This is supposed to be FUN! No one is going to bite you! I've already wasted allllllll my own time since this was first here

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...5&postcount=12

in the county until this week chasing down red herrings, blind alleys, and research box canyons. TWO months I spent on this, then ran to my guru, got pointed in the right direction... and had 'im inside an hour.


The point of the exercise is to look at what's here (the colors are accurate, no tricks there either) and see what can be made out of the silk biography here.
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Old 10-11-2003, 04:30 PM   #6
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Na gut, ich fang an.

We have here:

1. EK2 14 non-com
2. RAO4
3. probably KO3
4. JERUSALEM! No White falcon! A white falcon would follow after the Centenary
5. Centenary

So this bar dates from 1914/1915.
Have to sneak around my sources who the hell got a Jerusalem-cross. But we speak not about an active soldier, also not about a reserve officer. It has to be a uniformed official with LtCol-rank equivalent.

Best regards

Daniel
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I am stunned.....
Old 10-11-2003, 04:54 PM   #7
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Exclamation I am stunned.....

Daniel, in America we have a saying.....


You're getting colder........


I am sworn to silence, but you guys will not believe where this is going... When my evil twin told me... it was like an epiphany.....

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Old 10-11-2003, 05:01 PM   #8
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Another possibility. The EK ribbon is a RAO or KO on white ribbon for a colonial guy before the creation of the Colonial medal.

Warmer?
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Old 10-11-2003, 08:57 PM   #9
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If Daniel is right it maybe a White Falcon with swords too. Worn after a Long Service or peacetime Kronenorden because it is a "foreign" or "not prussian" award. Warmer?
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Old 10-11-2003, 09:47 PM   #10
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My first idea was a White Falcon too, which would be correct in front of a Centenary for someone from Saxe-Weimar. But I couldn't find ANY 1914 match! So then I went to Jerusalem... but then

a) there are no published rolls and

b) what sort of guy who was with the Kaiser THERE... would have... that FIRST ribbon?? and

c) NO LONG SERVICE. ??NO Long Service... or just

d) BEFORE entitlement to long service? Or... no medal bar long service???

Of course, the middle ribbon could be a Württemberg Friedrich Order...

and the red ribbon could be an Austro-Hungarian Franz Joseph Order...

and the yellow ribbon could be a Netheralnds Orange House Order...


spiralling out of control...


must...

escape...

one color....

ribbons...


but even the first two ribbons could be more than one award!

Oh for DEVICES!


But "time" is the correct path through the ribbon bar maze. TIME holds the key here.

Like dinosaurs, the "bones" tell part of this story too.
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Old 10-11-2003, 11:06 PM   #11
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Hmmmm...
I suspect given Stogieman's comments that its something odd, either a "Royal" bar or that of a female (like the barof Princess Celines' as Commander of a Leib Regt. that recently sold on ebay?).
All of these medals were used by different awards-so you could go a couple of ways. The one thing that seems to be a definete is the Centennial medal at the end-so whoever it was was around in 1897.
#1:
If ribbon #1 is an EK noncombat (1871), then where is a campaign medal (for 1871)?
However, if the medal is Kreigverdeinstmedallie (noncombat) then...also, where's the campaign medal?
So, if its a "Verdeinst Kreuz fur Ladies and Maidens" its odd, but it explains the lack of a LS ribbon. Its' also unique being on a bar and not a bow, but...odd things happened, especially for Royalty.
Lastly, it could be a 1914 Noncom Ek, in which case the blue ribbon denotes a Crown order for a Beamter and thereby no LS ribbon is justified.
#2: Either a REO (peacetime) or an Allgemeine Erhrenzichen award.
#3. Crown order(peacetime) or LS award.
#4. Luitpold medal, Austrian Commemorative medal or Sachsen "aid in burning castle incident" etc.?
#5. Centennial

So, 4 possibilities-
1. Very odd and unlikely ladies' bar for a jr. royal
2. Noncom. oberbeamter type bar from @1920 (which you say ain't so)
or 3. Lower civil servant type (Sr. Bahn clerk/Paymaster/palace servant) who got a Noncom EK2, Allg. Ehrenzeichen, LS (probably Landwehr), Austrian Jubilee/Memorium medal as an adjunct person somewhere connected with the KuK forces and a Centennial medal.
4. Some sort of Doctor/Vet officer dL/dR which explains lack of LS/campaign medal-but if 2 year volunteer time was done @1896-7, then he qualifies for the Centennial medal. But again, red ribbon mystery could be austrian commemorative.


If its earlier than 1871, then its very odd indeed with the Centennial medal. And of course there's the whole possibility of #1 being the non-christian award ribbon, which would explain the Jerusalem ribbon...
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:43 AM   #12
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- I do not think the EK noncom-ribbon is a 1870 award.
- If Rick speaks about devices it can get crazy. If tihs naughty guy did not wear the proper devices.. The EK ribbon can be a RAO4Xw, 2nd COULD even be something exotic like a RAO3 with bow, Swords on the ring and Crown.
- The 4th ribbon if jerusalem is odd but logical. There were plenty of guys with the Kaiser there; from simple privates, servants and navy guys to the highest military and court ranks. There is unfortunately no Roll and even in the 1908/09 Ordensalmamach are only 5 recipients listed.

Mirbach lists:
8 members of the court of the Empress
79 of the court of the Kaiser
47 members of the staffs of the ships carrying the bunch around
45 German clericals9 non-German clericals
171 other participiants, among them even travel agents.

So my best guess is one of this middle-class officials.

A female recipient is impossible, because females did not get either a RAO or Crown order.

Best regards

Daniel
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Old 10-12-2003, 10:51 AM   #13
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RAO I can't remember, but I'm certain i saw a PK of Princess Celine last month on ebay.de with a crown order.
Rick? do you still have the link?
JeMc
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Old 10-12-2003, 02:24 PM   #14
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Circa 1897 is verrrrry close. This was, as it turns out, indeed a Wilhelm I Centennial Medal. So we know that our original wearer was on active military duty 22 March 1897.

He was not a veteran... of 1870. He was of ... one of the categories mentioned above.

But timing is everything. He was both AHEAD of his time... and out of time.

The bar's backing, pin, and catch are all brass, which seems to have begun replacing those horrid sharp nickled steel "tuna fish" can bars in the 1890s, and was the standard type right up to the outbreak of WW1.
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Old 10-12-2003, 09:45 PM   #15
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The worlds' oldest Napoleonic veteran? Bethman Holvegs' bar (actually, that would fit!)...the Kaisers' youngest Grandson? The Kaiser's "working in the garden bar"?
The Mayor of Posen who joined the SS in 1932 (it's not a crown order, but an SS LS) and went to the Bavarian Kings' funeral (red ribbon)?
I can't stand it. The suspense is killing me.

Last edited by McCulloh; 10-13-2003 at 01:13 AM.
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