Uniform study images RSI period (1944)

[Splinterb]

I was under the impression that the telo mimetico camouflage was only used in the manufacture of para smocks, helmet covers, and shelter halves; was this camouflage material used to make "official" tunics and pants, rather than custom made pieces?

[Paolo Marzetti]

Some para smocks, during the RSI period have been made using the M.29 camo cloth(4 colours), but the most part of para smocks were made with special traspirable cloth (3 colours) very different from the M.29 camo cloth,
that was only water-proof.Of course several other clothing has been made
using this cloth as one can easily see on the wartime pics in this thread.PaoloM

[Luca Ongaro]

Originally Posted by Dennis S

GNR tanker with leather tankers helmet and painted skull.

I have a leather helmet exactly like this I have obtained directly from the soldier's family. Thanks to share this rare image Dennis, is the first time I see one, all the RSI tank helmets I have seen were questionables and with the metal skull applied.
Luca

[Splinterb]

Thanks Paolo,

I'm having a discussion with an acquaintance, who states that M29 was used for tunics and pants for San Marco Marines and Decima mas- I have never heard of that, so-

To clarify,

1) Did SMM or DM have official issue camouflage uniforms made for them? if so was it fashioned from the 3 color camo material?

2) Was M29 used in official production for anything other than para smocks, helmet covers and tent halves?

3) Is there a proper military or collector term for the post '43 3-color camouflage?


Thanks for your great insight and information, it is much appreciated!

Grazie tanto,

Ron

Originally Posted by Paolo Marzetti

Some para smocks, during the RSI period have been made using the M.29 camo cloth(4 colours), but the most part of para smocks were made with special traspirable cloth (3 colours) very different from the M.29 camo cloth,
that was only water-proof.Of course several other clothing has been made
using this cloth as one can easily see on the wartime pics in this thread.PaoloM

[Paolo Marzetti]

Originally Posted by Splinterb

1) Did SMM or DM have official issue camouflage uniforms made for them? if so was it fashioned from the 3 color camo material?

2) Was M29 used in official production for anything other than para smocks, helmet covers and tent halves?

3) Is there a proper military or collector term for the post '43 3-color camouflage?
Ron

San Marco Marines had their own 4 colour camo cloth, used for special smocks.
Decima Mas, but only the Nuotatori Paracadutisti, generally had the 3 colour
special smocks, identical to those issued to the paratroops of the king period.
In the period 1943-45 NPs of the DM some smocks were made with M.29 camo
cloth.After 1943 in the post Armistice period the M.29 camo cloth was used for everything useful to camouflage.For what I know it doesn't exist a military term
indicating a 3 color camo.PaoloM

[Splinterb]

For what I know it doesn't exist a military term
indicating a 3 color camo.PaoloM[/QUOTE]

Of course, I just found the technical name in a RSI archive- M(Marzetti) 43!

[Paolo Marzetti]

Originally Posted by Splinterb

Of course, I just found the technical name in a RSI archive- M(Marzetti) 43!

[Jeff Leser]

RE: name of the camouflage cloth. I checked Viotti to see if he provided an official name. While he addresses the new pattern, he states he is not sure when the new camouflague scheme was adopted. He does state that the photographic record places the wearing of the new jump smocks in the first half of 1942.

In figure 16 he calls the jump smock/suit a 'combinazione mimeica venne' introducted in 1942. I am unsure of the translation of venne (to fall or decend?). On page 235 he calls it a 'combinazione di lancio' (scheme/collection [of items] for jump). However he uses 'combinazione di lancio' to describe all the items used for a parachute jump, to include the parachute.

Given that the orignal camouflage is called tela 1929 (or tela mimetica Mod 29), it is possible (but certainly not proven) that this fabric could be tela 1942 (or tela mimetica mod 42). But only a guess.

Just some thoughts, but nothing proven.

Pista!

Jeff

[Paolo Marzetti]

As previously said the M.29 camo cloth (4 colours) and the M.42 jump smock
(camo with 3 colours) are two different things,very different between them.
For what I know nobody classified as M.42 the camo cloth used for the M.42
jump smock, in fact that's the variation of the M.41 grey jump smock.The grey
cloth rolls, before producing the M.42 camo smocks, were modified in the drawing with the joint of two colours.I appreciate the Viotti's work, but he
never classified the cloth.PaoloM

[Jeff Leser]

Paolo

"I appreciate the Viotti's work, but he never classified the cloth"

And I never stated Viotti did classify the cloth. All I posted was what he calls the jump smock/suit. I realize I should have made that clearer by adding a conclusion that Viotti didn't know the name of the cloth. I will be more careful in the future.

No disagreement with what you stated. As I pointed out in my post, Viotti didn’t give the camouflage pattern a name, nor could he identify precisely when the new pattern was introduced. Viotti tries to cite the actual circular or order for the items he discusses. This is one of the main strengths of Viotti’s books. The fact that Viotti doesn’t provide such a cite highlights the difficult surrounding the provenance of this camouflage pattern.

What I posted in regards to a possible name was:

"Given that the original camouflage is called tela 1929 (or tela mimetica Mod 29), it is possible (but certainly not proven) that this fabric could be tela 1942 (or tela mimetica mod 42). But only a guess."

"Just some thoughts, but nothing proven."

The use of the word original means I understand we are discussing two different camouflage patterns. I do not claim tela mimetica mod 42 is the official name for this pattern. I only offered a possible naming convention using the same style the Italian military applied to other cloth. I also made it very clear I was spectualating and not stating fact. Clearly a mistake to spectulate given your reaction.

I am sorry for any miscommunication

Pista!

Jeff.

[NickG]

One of my favorite pictures depicting Italian SS troops
(hope it wasn't shown already)

For some reason leather bandoleers were very popular with Italian SS troops

[wallonien]

Originally Posted by Dennis S

Milite of the 9th of September with German m43 hat and eagle, camo helmets, camo coveralls, samuri vests with grenade pouches , etc on the march.

This is one of my favorite RSI photos. Is it from your personal collection?

Dennis, do you have any more photos from the same event or any other "rare" IX Settembre photos(except the "classic" ones)?


Also, does anyone have more photos from this particular event? I believe these men could be from the "Tagliamento" legion.


I found this one in an old Swedish book about the war.

Here's another taken on the same occasion, from the Bundesarchiv;



I really like the look of these GNR troops - a mix of old(black shirts, the fez) and new(camo, SMG's) if you will.


Some more IX Settembre photos, from the book "Gli Ultimi in Grigioverde";

[Dennis S]

No not from my collection, all found on line

[italianwaffenSS]

other photos

[italianwaffenSS]

Originally Posted by italianwaffenss

other photos

1