Saxon bar (Zeige's auction)

[Claudio Ortelli]

Dear Imperialoids,

I would be interested in bidding on this bar (Zeige's auction next Sept. 20th). Anybody who is also interested in acquiring this bar please PM... I wouldn't like to bid against another fellow WAF's associate!

The all lot of decorations and documents is being split and the name of the bearer of this Spange is known. Nevertheless why is on this bar the bearer is only wearing four medals. I guess that very likely he got at least the Iron Cross 2nd class 1914 and the Hindenburg cross... The construction of the bar is typical of a Godet type of bar (see brass metal plate on which the ribbons are put in place with the decoration) and the also the light grey colored backing on the reverse is very typical for Godet... very nice job!

I am eagerly awaiting your replies.

Ciao,

Claudio

Here's the picture:

[Rick Research]

I wouldn't touch that combination with a 10 meter pole!!!!

Documents that "explain" this???????????

No Iron Cross 2 would be inconceivable for a WW1 Saxe Ernestine House ORDER-Knight 2nd with Swords... and as you say, no Hindenburg Cross X


and WHAT, in God's name, would an ex-OFFICER have been doing with the Nazi Duke of Saxe-Coburg's Third Reich SEHO-Merit Cross with Swords-on-Ring???????

Don't care at all for the Carl Eduard with swords and no bar, either.

This one doesn't even make sense as a partial row out of multiples being worn.


Some evil little naughty person's been busy spinning Rumpelstiltskin "sorta almost kinda matches" Frankenstein bits.


This bar gets all 20 (including toes)

[Claudio Ortelli]

Rick,

Zeige sent me some pictures of the bar but he didn't state the name of the wearer, but just said that it comes from a "solid" group of medals and documents. I guess he meant the articles here below listed (see www.zeige.com under Sachsen-Coburg-Cotha). Could you please check his other items and give your opinion?

Many thanks in advance!

Ciao,

Claudio

Here are the other documents and decorations... it would be nice to check the "Soldbuch". Infact, according to his description, some of these foreign medals are listed on the SB. I could ask him if the medals of the bar are mentioned in it and to send me a scan of it. I am beginning to be more and more curious about it!

Dokumentennachlaß des Kabinettsdirektors S.K.H. des Herzogs Carl Eduard von Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha, 20 Dokumente
Nr. 293 II € 250,00

Ernestinischer Hausorden, Ritterkreuz mit Schwertern und Schwertern am Ring, Silber vergoldet und emailliert, unterhalb der Krone die verlöteten goldenen Schwerter am Ring, am Band. Prachtstück.
Nr. 294 FOTO I-II € 600,00

Königreich Bulgarien, Zivilverdienst-Orden, 2. Modell, Komandeurkreuz mit Bruststern zum Kommandeurkreuz. Das Kreuz Silber vergoldet und emailliert, am genähten Halsband. Der Bruststern Silber mit vergoldeter und emaillierter Auflage, an Nadel. Verliehen an Fritz von Grolman 22.5.1939, laut Eintrag im Soldbuch.
Nr. 296 FOTO I-II € 300,00

Königreich Bulgarien, Militärverdienst-Orden, Kommandeurkreuz, Silber vergoldet und emailliert, am genähten Halsband
Nr. 297 FOTO I-II € 200,00

Königreich Bulgarien, St. Alexander-Orden, 2. Modell, Offizierskreuz mit Schwertern am Ring. Silber vergoldet und emailliert, am Dreiecksband, im Verleihungsetui mit entsprechendem Aufdruck.
Nr. 298 FOTO I-II € 100,00

Königreich Griechenland, Phönix-Orden, 2. Modell, Kommandeurkreuz 2. Klasse. Das Kreuz Silber vergoldet und emailliert, am genähten Halsband. Prächtige Erhaltung. Verliehen an Fritz von Grolman am 20.7.1939, laut Eintrag im Soldbuch.
Nr. 299 FOTO I- € 200,00

[Claudio Ortelli]

I just wanted also to show you the SEHO 1. Kl. mit Schwertern und Schwetern am Ring (usually given out by the Duke to party members in 1935... but until now I thought just "Komturkreuze" would feature the swords "am Ring" and not also between the arms of the cross of this order).

Here's the picture (worth more than 1'000 words...). It looks like "Bronze vergoldet"... and almost untouched!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Rick Research]

Without a name I don't know. I see that the description is for a Knight's grade with Swords AND "Swords-on-Ring" which it isn't on that BIZARRE medal bar.

Zeige is an absolutely TOP dealer, but no one (even me ) is or can be "perfect."

IF the documents match that specific combination I would be astonished at the utter completely contrary to regulations and practice improbability of it. But IF they DO, then that is one freaky weird bar to a court flunky with things that in that case WERE awarded, but still don't make any sense!!!

[Christian L]

if you get it claudio, you have to tell more about it!

this story gets interesting!

christian

[Claudio Ortelli]

Rick,

The name is mentioned with the other medals and documents: Major d.Reserve Fritz von Grolman (very weird ... only 1 "n"... that's not very German!).

Ciao,

Claudio

[Rick Research]

Can't find any "Maj dR Fritz" in my Prussian sources, but there were LOTS of von Grolmans... they seem to have "specialized" in being born elsewhere and serving someplace else-- Prussians in Bavaria and vice versa. There was even an Argentinian branch. A Wilhelm von Grolman, Prussian and yet Bavarian LaPo between the wars ( ) was an SA Brigadeführer in 1935.