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Uniforms of the Brigade Dirlewanger
Old 11-10-2008, 08:39 AM   #1
erichcraciun
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Default Uniforms of the Brigade Dirlewanger

From veterans of the 357. Inf Div, (RKT Hauptmann Otto Hafner, Füsilier Btl. 357), I have the information that the SS Brigade Dirlewanger has a specific type of uniform consisting of stripes of Tresse on their sleeves and they did not use the SS rank system rather Herr Kompanieführer, Herr Brigadeführer.

He also mentions that the officers were not bad soldiers, most of them had front line experience, but due to disiplinary "issues" they were posted to Bewährungseinheiten.

Does anyone have concrete information regarding these uniforms.

If you have interested, I can post here Hafner's remarks.

Thank you in advance.

Erich
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:42 AM   #2
Robin Lumsden
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Here are real Dirlewanger men...................
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:45 AM   #3
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Here's a post-war mock-up photo of F.-E. Porsch, who was a bit of a poser.

I think this is where the idea of the tresse stripes comes from.
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:32 PM   #4
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Robin,

So is the picture of F.-E. Porsch faked, or what do you mean by the statement he is a bit of a poser.

Did the Disciplinary units have this rank system of not.

Unfortunately Hafner died more than two years ago and I can no longer ask him.

Erich
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:44 PM   #5
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I for one would love to hear his comments. It is also possible he was refering to the camo rank stripes that the officers wear?
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:07 PM   #6
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"were not bad soldiers, most of them had front line experience"



I'm sorry, can you tell me where they were "not bad soldiers" ???

When I spoke with Soldiers of Polish Home Army all opinions about Dirlewangers troops were always same : " bloody murderers of civilian and beasts", " Only death and violence"

Many of Wehrmacht soldiers hated them (during Warsaw Uprising) by the reason of bloody war crimes on civilian
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:18 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erichcraciun View Post
So is the picture of F.-E. Porsch faked, or what do you mean by the statement he is a bit of a poser.
While Porsch definitely existed (and indeed still does as far as I know), doubts surround much of what he has written. Firstly, Porsch's claims to have been a recipient of the RK, the Close Combat Clasp in Gold, the General Assault Badge for 75 assaults and the German Cross in Gold cannot be documented and are disputed by the various societies which represent actual recipients of the awards. He was certainly a member of the Waffen-SS.

Over the years, various reasonably well known photographs of Porsch have been published in which he wears an officer's uniform and an enormous number of decorations, as well as the 'Dirlewanger' collar patches (on both collars) which he claims were worn by his anti-tank unit (he was never in the Dirlewanger outfit). These photos must be post-war, because they show a man in middle age, and not the twenty-one year old they should depict if they were contemporary.

Porsch later wrote heavily fictionalised accounts of his experiences under the name Ingo Petersen.

The sleeve stripes in the photo are also a figment of his imagination.

They look good, though..............eh?!

Hence 'poser'.
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Last edited by Robin Lumsden; 11-10-2008 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:20 PM   #8
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There is a photo attributed to the Warsaw Uprising which shows a soldier who's clearly a squad leader or similar who wears Der Spiess rings and no other insignia ... I'm sure many others remember the one ... perhaps this is the tresse stripes he was thinking of ?

Ian.
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:35 PM   #9
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On a semi-related subject (Warsaw Uprising), the chap on the left is said to be Vladimir Putin's grand-dad!
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Hulley View Post
There is a photo attributed to the Warsaw Uprising which shows a soldier who's clearly a squad leader or similar who wears Der Spiess rings and no other insignia ... I'm sure many others remember the one ... perhaps this is the tresse stripes he was thinking of ?
Could be, Ian.
I know the photo.
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:38 PM   #11
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Is the one in the middle Prince Charles !!

Ian.
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Old 11-10-2008, 03:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Hulley View Post
Is the one in the middle Prince Charles !!
Naw.

It's Phil the Greek.
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Old 11-10-2008, 06:05 PM   #13
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[QUOTE=Robin Lumsden;2930381]Here's a post-war mock-up photo of F.-E. Porsch, who was a bit of a poser.

In a phone call to a friend of mine in the mid 90´s Herr Porsch claimed Sepp Dietrich his uncle and Jochen Peiper his cousin...
I was quite shocked then, as I liked the Petersson-books a lot...still do, but now I know, that a lot of it is fiction.

Regards,
solkors
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:04 PM   #14
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That photo [post # 9] is mislabeled if it says anything about Warsaw.. It has nothing to do with either Warsaw uprising.. The man on right with black panzer wrap,,there were NO POA men at Warsaw....Even eyewitness reports of 'Vlasov' men at Warsaw was incorrect. What they saw were Kaminskis men the POHA or29th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS RONA [1st Russian]

Stripes on sleeve,,,*if you want to believe as it comes from E. Porsch!

SS Assault Battalion 500 / SS-Sturmbataillon 500 / SS-Panzerjagdkompanie Dora II / SS-Bewährungsverband 500

No collar tabsSandard shoulder board ranks were used

1 stripe for squad leader
2 stripe for platoon leader
3 stripe for company commanders
4 stripe for Battalion commander [not used]
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Old 11-11-2008, 06:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaspare View Post
That photo [post # 9] is mislabeled if it says anything about Warsaw.
Here you go, then...............

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...n%26safe%3Doff
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