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Bulgarian Pillbox Panzers.
Old 02-20-2008, 09:13 AM   #1
r_hufschmied
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Default Bulgarian Pillbox Panzers.

More pictures found online! I was led to believe that most of these Panzers had been cut just behind the fighting compartment ... which is clearly not the case!

The Jagdpanzer IV even has its tracks!!



A Pz IV:



And a fairly intact StuG III:



For full gallery go to this link:

http://www.detektorweb.cz/index.4me?...mm=2&xb=2&vd=1
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:09 AM   #2
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Amazing discovery, I also thought that only the upper hull was intact and this is clearly not the case !! For the Jagdpanzer IV, it even seems that few parts are missing, that's really surprising.

Well, I just hope that these will not end as scrap metal, as it seems it might be the case. I really hope that the Bulgarian government will eventually be aware that these tanks have a high value on the market and that it could be helpful money to develop their museums or other projects... and that they will take reasonable decisions regarding the fate of these tanks.

P-O
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Old 02-20-2008, 12:46 PM   #3
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I'm keeping my fingers crossed that a Panther or two might turn up ...
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:32 PM   #4
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indeed I forgot the rumors which says that Panthers might be buried there.. and as I've never seen any photo of these, I don't expect Panthers to be recovered there.. but who knows..

P-O
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Old 02-20-2008, 02:51 PM   #5
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No rumor, they (all 15 of them) were placed at the Turkish border. The thing is no-one seems to know for sure if they were scrapped or not.

My long standing thesis is that they weren't scrapped as they represented among the best AT capability available for a long time. As such they would have been placed at more high-profile objects, slated for better protection, in very restricted zones ... or they were among the first to be scrapped.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:08 PM   #6
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Yes, these were salvaged so far. The tank hunter is very good, I think it has the transmission inside /no engine though/. These are complete hulls /quite/, but indeed there are some Pz IV turned to MG nests, using very much cut body.

I think those are saved. But there are more, I hope they will be salvaged, too! There are even one or two nests made of Pz III, I think /or Pz II, not sure/.

As for the panthers, so far nothing is heard of these. 15 were delivered, but according to the memories book of a former tank officer, one burned like a torch during some kind of training sohrtly after the war. This makes 14 possible burried. IF ever burrid, may have been cut decades ago. I hope not, but as said so far not a trace has surfaced.

Here it is, probably a Pz II hiding in there
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Last edited by Theodor; 02-20-2008 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:15 PM   #7
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That guy who made those photos, he has spent days and nights in the wild and has done MORE than a GREAT work!!!!
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:41 PM   #8
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Great photos, and thanks for keeping us updated.

That Jagdpanzer IV looks to be in amazing condition, considering it was buried beneath the ground all these years. That one has loads of potential for restoration... Hopefully we can see it properly restored and preserved indoors, for future generations to study and enjoy.

Rob
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Old 02-20-2008, 08:14 PM   #9
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This is a very very exciting time for us tank lovers. In the last thirty years I dont believe a horde of German tanks this large has been discovered. Who exactly is heading up the recovery?
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:59 AM   #10
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The work is ordered by the Defense minister and the Chief Staff of the army. The work is done by tank support unit - they have T62s converted to tractors and heavy platforms for transportation of tanks.
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Interesting Internet News Item....
Old 02-21-2008, 12:47 PM   #11
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Default Interesting Internet News Item....

See this article on Yahoo! News:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080221...mx9Uj8eUh0bBAF
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:51 PM   #12
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Well, I'm sorry but I don't know 30 surviving Jagdpanzer IV L/70 in the world.. the guy who said that in this article may help me to find the 20 missing..

Pierre-Olivier
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:09 PM   #13
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Quoting the article from Yahoo :

"But the army, despite its huge recovery effort, has raised doubts about their real value.

Kalev said all of the tanks recovered so far had already been stripped by looters.

"We started recovering them to save them from the scrap gangs. But what we're finding more resembles just holed-out soup cans," he said.

"My personal opinion is that they're no good for anything," he added, pointing to the rusty hull of a Panzer IV."

Well, we should make sure that the responsibles of the fate of these tanks will not give them to scrap dealers. Maybe collectors like Kevin Wheatcroft or Jacques Littlefield or other armor collectors know guys who could enter in contact with responsibles at the Bulgarian Ministry of Defence to be sure that these tanks could be sold to private collectors instead of being scrapped. Don't let them scrap these veterans !!
I know that the anti-nazi ideas are stong in these countries and that some guys see these tanks as the instruments of the evil and can't understand that they could have an historical value. Do anybody here has a solution to arrange the situation so that these tanks can be preserved?

Pierre-Olivier
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:39 AM   #14
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This has been said by the guy, responsible for the digging and transpotring. Fortunately, his personal opinion is worth nohing in this case. The tanks willl be evaluated by experts /from the military, from the museums and hopefully some historians tank buffs/. The rare ones and the better preserved ones will go to the Military museums. The ones that are a common model and together with this not so well preserved, will be most likely offered for sale. The only danger is, if - motivated by King Dollar - the military make a shady, not opened for the public evaluation and send to the museum a few mediocre hulls, and the good ones be negotiated and sold to someone. I hope the public interest will prevent a dark deal from happening, but on the other hand here is Wonderland and anything is possible
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the shadock View Post
Quoting the article from Yahoo :

"But the army, despite its huge recovery effort, has raised doubts about their real value.

Kalev said all of the tanks recovered so far had already been stripped by looters.

"We started recovering them to save them from the scrap gangs. But what we're finding more resembles just holed-out soup cans," he said.

"My personal opinion is that they're no good for anything," he added, pointing to the rusty hull of a Panzer IV."

Well, we should make sure that the responsibles of the fate of these tanks will not give them to scrap dealers. Maybe collectors like Kevin Wheatcroft or Jacques Littlefield or other armor collectors know guys who could enter in contact with responsibles at the Bulgarian Ministry of Defence to be sure that these tanks could be sold to private collectors instead of being scrapped. Don't let them scrap these veterans !!
I know that the anti-nazi ideas are stong in these countries and that some guys see these tanks as the instruments of the evil and can't understand that they could have an historical value. Do anybody here has a solution to arrange the situation so that these tanks can be preserved?

Pierre-Olivier
I wonder does this person who wrote this text above saw Finnish Army auction prices for 3 wrecked Stug hulls? All went over 100000euros...
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