Schwerin U-Boat Timeline--Major Revision to study

[Darrell]

Guys,

I'd like to start a pictorial discussion on the "evolution" of the Schwerin U-Boat Badges.

I know there are a ton of threads with Schwerin U-Boat badges posted here throughout the years. I don't want to start lifting pictures to post here without obtaining the owner's permission.

Therefore, if you could please contribute. I'd like to see any variation, Tombak, Zinc whatever. What I'm focusing on is the reverse hardware and obverse eagle characteristics.

Thanking you guys in advance. Hopefully we can get some good discussion. Please try and post some decent Obverse / Reverse pictures (scans or high res). You can post nice closeups of the catches, pins, and hinges if you like.

Thanks.

[John Robinson]

Thanks to Norm putting in a lot of time, this is the new list of these U-boat badges in an assumed time sequence. Thanks Norm!!!!

Remember collectors, this is just a theory based on the badges we have studied and is not necessarily fact. It is interesting.

Type 1: thin neck, large maker mark, round wire catch (the most common variant posted, the classic "1st pattern")

Type 2 (transitional): thick neck, unmarked, round wire catch (only two examples posted on WAF - Dai's and Adam S.'s)

Type 3 (transitional): thick neck, large maker mark, curved flat wire catch (only 3 examples posted on WAF - mooseran's, Karsten S.'s and Ralph A.'s, also one of these on Kai Winkler's site as of 29 Oct 2010)

Type 4 (transitional): thick neck, unmarked, curved flat wire catch (a nice one on Kai Winkler's site as of 29 Oct 2010)

Type 5 (transitional): thick neck, small maker mark, squared flat wire catch (only two good examples posted - Jody's and Dennis P.'s)

Type 6: thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch (the second most common variant posted, the classic "2nd pattern")

Type 7: thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch, flipped hinge block (the "S&L catalogue" model)

Type 7a (exception?): thick neck, medium maker mark, squared flat wire catch, flipped hinge block (like the "S&L catalogue" model but George Stimson's example is the only marked one and a very similar mark seen on a zinc Deumer)

Type 8: zinc, thick neck, unmarked, squared flat wire catch on catch plate, typical zincer Schwerin pin setup (only a few examples)

[Darrell]

I managed to dig up a couple of examples that are "different" and may reproduce what John has described above.

Not sure about small vs. large mm. (Thin neck, round wire catch and mm).

[Darrell]

(thin neck, flatwire catch and mm):

[Darrell]

(thick neck, flatwire catch and no mm):

[Darrell]

reversed block hinge:

[Darrell]

What's earlier for hinge pins? The cross-hatched flat pin or the round headed pin?

[Mike Kenny]

[quote=Darrell;2403134]What's earlier for hinge pins? The cross-hatched flat pin or the round headed pin?quote]

Imo the dome-headed hinge pins are earlier, then came the flat-headed (cross-hatched or not) and for zinc they generally don't have hinge-pin heads at all.

Regards
Mike

[Darrell]

Zinc Unmarked:

[Darrell]

Here is one that Mike Kenny posted a while back (hope you don't mind Mike ) that has round wire catch but no marker Mark.

[Mike Kenny]

NOT ALL early badges were maker marked. From what I have seen, unmarked Schwerin U-boat badges (of any/all "types") are much more common than marked badges.

Regards
Mike

[Josh B.]

This is mine, purchased from Bob C. off the estand (his photos with permission). Josh

[Josh B.]

the back. Notice the scratch marks likely left from the process of assembling the hinge/pin assembly. These seem to appear on a number of these schwerin badges.

Josh

[Darrell]

Originally Posted by Mike Kenny

NOT ALL early badges were maker marked. From what I have seen, unmarked Schwerin U-boat badges (of any/all "types") are much more common than marked badges.

Regards
Mike

I agree Mike. After all, we see EK's and RK's from very early in the war unmarked (before maker ID was required).

I have been scouring the last 5 years of threads on anything I can find about Schwerin U-Boat badges and the concensous is there was 1 die, that underwent repairs. This resulted in several changes to the appearance of the badge. Among these changes were a "fatter" eagles neck and the appearance of flashing on the keel of the boat.

It is generally accepted that round wire catches were the first, then followed by flatwire catches. Then a silver pin to round out the last of the tombak series. The domed pins were generally earlier variety followed by flatheads (cross-hatched). I would also assume they were mix matched depending on left over stock.

I would imagine marked and unmarked varieties of all TYPES were apparent during their place in the timeline.

[L11-VELASCO]

hi darrell
light me about what beetween 2 types schwerin block hinge reversed or not reversed was more common finding and wich of them was used before?thanks in advance
i purchased one with block hinge reversed as you show in your post

fernando(spain)