Dutch ID card with POLIZEI unit stamp - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums

NickG · 07-04-2007, 01:14 PM

I have a Dutch ID card "Persoonsbewijs" issued in 1941 which has a German control stamp on the cover. Its for "Polizei Waffenschule III" which was located in The Hague (Den Haag).
QUESTION:
Why would a Dutch ID card have such a stamp on its cover?
It has some writing on it in German illegible... along with a date (1941)+ signature + rank(Hauptmann)
Has anybody seen this before? Thanks Nick

NickG · 07-04-2007, 01:30 PM

Here is a similar unit stamp on an envelope, unrelated to the ID card and not in my possession....also marked Den Haag 1941, see pink highlighted circle! (Same unit)

NickG · 07-04-2007, 02:05 PM

Again stamp on envelope, unrelated to ID card!

NickG · 07-04-2007, 02:07 PM

cover of ID card

NickG · 07-04-2007, 02:11 PM

Roman "III" stamp on back of ID card. Does this have something to do with "Polizei Waffenschule III" mabye?

NickG · 07-04-2007, 02:14 PM

As this picture might proove, its a Police "weapons training" school (Pol.Waffenschule III) in Den Haag (aka s-Gravenhage) in Holland. Here some troops depicted with a captured British Tank (BEF 1940 captured)

NickG · 07-04-2007, 02:15 PM

explanation! Does anybody have more info on this unit? and why the unit stamp might appear on a Dutch ID card? Thanks Nick

Eric JB · 07-04-2007, 04:47 PM

Hi Nick,

Strange to see such a stamp on a Dutch id card !!!
Usually such a stamp shouldn't be stamped on such an id.
Such id cards only shows surename, firstname, birthday and place, occupation, place living at the time the card was handed out, and only stamped with official stamp of the place and stamp that the card was issued by the mayor, and ofcourse a passphoto.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan Bakker

NickG · 07-04-2007, 05:42 PM

Thanks for the comments Eric-Jan...This ID card is a family obtained piece of a close relative and the stamp is absolutely original to it.
The story goes that this relative if mine had to vacate the beach area where he lived... (Scheveningen) because the Germans were building the Atlantic Wall. Perhaps it is a stamp + notation which allowed him in and out of this "Sperrgebiet" (militarized zone)?? Does that make sense? Unfortunately you can no longer read the notes handwritten on the cover...only the signature, date and rank (Hauptmann) are legible... The stamp is obviously a training unit, but I never heard anything about him being associated with the Polizei... eventhough they did recruit locally. Thanks for your input! Nick

Huntzman · 07-05-2007, 12:44 PM

Nick

While I cannot say with absolutely authority, I think you might have hit it on the head with the thought of it being a "entry pass". I know that in the past during my law enforcement career we have "sealed" an area for a period of time and residents needed a special pass to enter this now "restricted" zone. It is quite possible that this stamp allowed the sentries to see that the person was authorized by the Pol. -Waffenschule III to pass into the area.

I would look into the activities of the unit and see if they were in fact assigned to this area where your relative lived. And see if they coincide with the relocation time period.

Andrew

NickG · 07-05-2007, 02:17 PM

Thanks Andrew! I will! Fellow forum member Schupo was so kind to explain to me that "Polizei-Lehr-Btl. III" was the previous name of this unit and for some reason they changed it to "Pol.Waffenschule III" , so I'll use both names while researching this further! If I can obtain proof that these troops had Altantic Wall duty, it is most likely indeed an "entry/admission stamp" (like a pass).
Nick

Ostfries · 07-05-2007, 04:46 PM

Double post.

Ostfries · 07-05-2007, 04:47 PM

Very interesting Nick, could it not be that he joined this Polizei training school and that his normal ID cart was first used as ID until he would get his Polizei papers?(soldbuch and dienstpass). Another explanation could be that he was working at the quarters of that Polizei training school and that he could gain access to it by this stamp on his ID cart?, just some thoughts.

NickG · 07-06-2007, 04:52 PM

Thanks for your input ostfries! Both of your alternate theories do make perfect sense... who knows? but I'm still sticking to the story that its a notation allowing entry into the sperrgebiet (Scheveningen)because of his residency there. That is the story that I've been told all along when I asked about the stamp... and to make the case that that is a valid explanation, there is typed (added) remark inside the ID next to the address, which states "geevacueerd" (Dutch for evacuated) + date. So eventually he had to vacate (move away) apparently... but who knows?...

BUT I was hoping that perhaps other ID cards might turn up on WAF with a similar stamp and clearer writing on it, because if indeed it is something that had to do with an entry pass, allowing access into a militarized zone (like Atlantikwal beach area, because of residency), more military stamped civilian ID cards like my example were issued with certainty, but no others have (ever) turned up so far... Its a unique combination which makes it so puzzling... and other family members living at that address did not have their cards stamped like this... as I am in possession of those ID cards as well...

With that said the other (collaboration) theory is still a possibility, but of course working for the Germans in whatever capacity (as an armed forces freiwillige with this ID card serving as a temporary Soldbuch-dienstpass, or as a civil employee, the stamped ID allowing access into a military installation) is obviously something people won't easily admit to and talk about... at least not if you are from Holland!
Nick
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ADDED remark:
I just found out that the Polizei Lehr Btl. III in Den Haag was the predecessor of Polizei Waffenschule III with the name change happening in August 1943, meaning that the stamp would have been placed on this document after August 1943 and my relative evacuated the beach area in Dec.1942...
So the stamp obviously has nothing to do with his evacuation order, having to move away from the sperrgebiet... something I was always told...
So this kills that theory...that the stamp had something to do with access into the coastal zone for residency purposes, as he was already evacuated prior that date...unless his job required him to have access into "fortress Scheveningen" (Atlantic Wall area). We will never know as this relative passed away in the 1980s'...
Nick

Ostfries · 07-09-2007, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NickG

Thanks for your input ostfries! Both of your alternate theories do make perfect sense... who knows? but I'm still sticking to the story that its a notation allowing entry into the sperrgebiet (Scheveningen)because of his residency there. That is the story that I've been told all along when I asked about the stamp... and to make the case that that is a valid explanation, there is typed (added) remark inside the ID next to the address, which states "geevacueerd" (Dutch for evacuated) + date. So eventually he had to vacate (move away) apparently... but who knows?...

BUT I was hoping that perhaps other ID cards might turn up on WAF with a similar stamp and clearer writing on it, because if indeed it is something that had to do with an entry pass, allowing access into a militarized zone (like Atlantikwal beach area, because of residency), more military stamped civilian ID cards like my example were issued with certainty, but no others have (ever) turned up so far... Its a unique combination which makes it so puzzling... and other family members living at that address did not have their cards stamped like this... as I am in possession of those ID cards as well...

With that said the other (collaboration) theory is still a possibility, but of course working for the Germans in whatever capacity (as an armed forces freiwillige with this ID card serving as a temporary Soldbuch-dienstpass, or as a civil employee, the stamped ID allowing access into a military installation) is obviously something people won't easily admit to and talk about... at least not if you are from Holland!
Nick
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ADDED remark:
I just found out that the Polizei Lehr Btl. III in Den Haag was the predecessor of Polizei Waffenschule III with the name change happening in August 1943, meaning that the stamp would have been placed on this document after August 1943 and my relative evacuated the beach area in Dec.1942...
So the stamp obviously has nothing to do with his evacuation order, having to move away from the sperrgebiet... something I was always told...
So this kills that theory...that the stamp had something to do with access into the coastal zone for residency purposes, as he was already evacuated prior that date...unless his job required him to have access into "fortress Scheveningen" (Atlantic Wall area). We will never know as this relative passed away in the 1980s'...
Nick

Personally I don’t think that the stamp on this ID cart was intended to gain access to some sort of districted area because then, besides the stamp, they would mention the particular area, gaining access to an districted area just by a single stamp on an ID cart makes no sense because you could/would get access to any districted area if not mentioned which one, and that the Germans where very precise in. Just like you mention in your last statement, people where not keen of telling there exact actions and whereabouts during occupation time and because of shame many times they smooth over the exact story, I do not say that it’s the case in yours but it could be a reason why they told you the story how you know it. Years ago it was still a subject where people out of shame didn’t talk much about. Now with the current third generation the issue is more accepted, here in Friesland there is even a book who brings up this subject in prospective, its called ‘Serve underneath the Swastika, Frisians in German National service, a book who try to give an explanation for the differed reasons why someone would join German national service. I witnessed an example my self, although my girlfriends dad knows my unprejudiced opinion regarding collaboration and collecting/interest in WWII, despite of that it restrained him years to come forward with some papers of his dad which cleared his service in the Nationalsozialistischer Kraftfahrkorps (NSKK), an logical explanation to me because his dad was a truck driver before the war and to feed nine hungry mouths and no other work he made this choice.