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Rare WH/Waffen SS Leibermuster experimental parka
Old 09-25-2002, 08:29 PM   #1
Panzer
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Default Rare WH/Waffen SS Leibermuster experimental parka

Hi Guys,
thought I would share with you a super rare item I managed to find in the eastern part of Europe. I am selling it through a friend & sponsor of this forum. It's a Leibermuster parka...which in itself is amazing, but this appears to be a prototype parka, with no opening at the front, instead being a pullover like the anorak. It appears to have been trialed, as it has the usual cuff wear and stuff like that, and I noticed a couple of small modifications also (like the possible former presence of a crutch flap).

It's also interesting to compare the black parts of the pattern on the back to Beaver's pics...you can actually see the pattern but it's appearance, especially along the top of the black patterns is changed by the differing roller sizes (a feature of this pattern), but the common parts are quite apparent.

There are many more pictures here: http://www.ww-2militaria.com/b/catemp/lm/Im_desc.htm

Hope you find it interesting!
Cheers, Wade K.




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Old 09-27-2002, 04:24 AM   #2
heinrich66
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It is hard to believe that this piece should be a wartime example, even when it is a prototype.

Greetings

Heinrich
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Old 09-27-2002, 08:28 AM   #3
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Hello,
why is that? The jacket is the correct material, the wear patterns are completely in keeping with the age of the piece and it's use, and it conforms to known German construction patterns. If you examine the pictures in the link you will see that the cuffs have age wear and rubbing (grease marks in places like the cuffs...especially aparent as usual on the white side) and also recognise a few spots of cloth fatigue (which I have photographed close up) which is extreemly hard to simulate and which would not stand such close scrutiny. Also the stitching is completly in accordance with known techniques....as are all materials. (eve the jacket's possible modifications are ones that make sense when analyzed properly. The pattern of the blacks is also comparable in certain areas to that shown in Beaver's Waffen-SS camouflage book....within the constraints of the different sized rollers that where used to print each section....but common areas still occur.

Until recently Leiber pattern was not even discussed or included in books...until just the last couple of years nobody knew of even a single picture of it being worn in the field.....now it is of interest to collectors and we have a combat photgraph of it being worn (the two piece HBT suit). Plus this suit has also been looked at by the owner of one of these suits and the owner of the section of material in the Beaver book....and passed.

So please....what is the problem apart from the fact it is extreemly rare?
Cheers, Wade K.
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Old 09-27-2002, 10:49 AM   #4
Chris Boonzaier
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I asked a collector about this pattern today and he said the Czechs used it after the war, or a very close copy of it.
Not that this is any reflection on the pictured piece, but does anyone have a pic of one of those for the sake of comparrison ?
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cammo pattern
Old 09-27-2002, 01:10 PM   #5
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Default cammo pattern

i think also the swiss used it....
but think the sleeve brassards was something that wasn't carried over...

isnt german size markings only I II III ?
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Old 09-27-2002, 06:11 PM   #6
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Hi Guys,
no, with respect this is not the Swiss pattern which is similar at first glance but definately not the same (I am trying to find a snap of some).

Here is a comparison on this jacket and the Leiber material shown in Beaver's "Camouflage Uniforms of the Waffen-SS" (with acknowledgment for the book plate shown below).
Note the patterns of the black sections? It is the same run of pattern, even outside of the panel I have maked off. There is some variation on the upper borders of some runs, but this is a direct and intentional effect of the variable rollers use to print the pattern. But direct comparison is easily possible. As for the markings it is I believe a direct result of limited item stampings being made and those for test purposes. Once issued the basic codes and stamps would be used.




If this item was Swiss it would be like all other post war camouflage pattern items...it would be readily available and seen everywhere right down to your local disposal store. This is not...not even a few pieces. The manufacturing is obviously German with everything consistent with other regular german WW2 parkas (even the late war square pocket flaps)....except the lack of front closure and the material...which is the interesting part!

This is definately period, old, and quite unique, which is why it is hard for some to accept.
Cheers! wade K.
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Old 09-27-2002, 06:40 PM   #7
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Hi again,
here is a cap made in the Swiss Leiber material, not military but repro in the same pattern...and identical to the army material. Note that it is similar but definately different....but the heavy red-brick colour is a notable inclussion in all Swiss cammo.


cheers, Wade K.
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Old 09-27-2002, 09:50 PM   #8
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hi guys
i finally made the conection leibermuster...... LIBERACE


seriously it is a beautiful piece .......the excepting part is that it is in style unlike anything i've seen. it does have parka elements....

i probaly missed it but where was the piece found?
thanks
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Old 09-27-2002, 10:01 PM   #9
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Hi Jakeb,
found in Warsaw....at a flea market. The guy who bought it didn't really know what he had. But he finally traded it off for some rare Polish stuff that was of much more interest to him.
Cheers, Wade K.
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Old 09-27-2002, 10:09 PM   #10
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hi
checked out more pic! Warsaw....
i answered my own question
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Old 09-27-2002, 10:12 PM   #11
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i got to get to poland
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Old 09-27-2002, 10:19 PM   #12
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one of the reasons why, besides germany lost the war, that there's not a lot of stuff out there in comparison to what was made is that people wore the clothes after the war...
this parka had no value to the guy and it gets cold in poland why wouldn't the owner have worn it...

i'm just spit balling ....not trying to cause a riot....

your not a mind reader and theres no answer to why people do whatt they do.

i'll tell you what if i had the bread to buy it i'd wear it.... wait i'm a III

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Old 09-28-2002, 06:34 AM   #13
Frank Heukemes
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Here is a better comparison with the swiss pattern, clearly different. I could not find any Czech camo patterns that were similar to the Leibermuster shown by Wade.

Cheers, Frank H.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg swiss.jpg (69.6 KB, 1893 views)
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Cheers, Frank

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Regarding the stamp
Old 09-28-2002, 10:13 AM   #14
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Default Regarding the stamp

Just an observation concerning the stamp "grösse" inside the parka, I believe the Germans use a single letter similar to a ''B'' in case they have a double letter ''S'' in a text?
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Old 09-28-2002, 10:52 AM   #15
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The item is, to say the least, interesting.Authenticity and rarity aside,unless one collects specifically camoflage items it is not very appealing.I am speaking from my own perspective.I prefer that an item be somthing that was actually used and has a historical record of its use other than a one time experimental jaunt.This is one of those items that is very interesting in itself but yet I would not really have an interest in owning one.I would prefer a more common patterned one.Its kind of "loud" almost like a Hawaiian shirt.Just my honest thoughts on it.Strange looking item and very unique indeed. Regards,John
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