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Bundesrepublik Deutschland, 1949-Present From West Germany through to the modern reunified German Republic.

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BGS BundesGrenzSchutz
Old 11-14-2007, 10:34 AM   #1
VPpat
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Default BGS BundesGrenzSchutz

I was hoping someone could help with dating BGS uniforms and insignia. Maybe we could start by posting the major changes in uniforms and the years the changes took effect. I for one would like to know when and if the BGS placed the BGS insignia on the sleeve of the camo uniforms?

pat
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Old 11-15-2007, 07:17 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VPpat View Post
I was hoping someone could help with dating BGS uniforms and insignia. Maybe we could start by posting the major changes in uniforms and the years the changes took effect. I for one would like to know when and if the BGS placed the BGS insignia on the sleeve of the camo uniforms?

pat
Pat - A tough area to research, I'll see what I can dig up this weekend.

Take care - TJ
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:05 AM   #3
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Thank you, I was thinking this would be a good start/thread for a BW forum but maybe not. hahaha
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Old 11-19-2007, 07:47 PM   #4
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can anyone post an orig BGS M-43 style cap in camo. Can anyone give advise on telling the diff between an orig and repop
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:01 AM   #5
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VPpat,

Yes the BGS wore their insignia on the cammo coat they wore. It was on the pocket of the left sleeve. Hard to get one of these items of clothing in good shape as they were normally cut up pretty badly before disposal. Mine has been resewn so is not pretty but still in one piece. One day I must get n uncut one. They are available. I don't remember the BGS wearing a camo M43 style hatd per se. Just the normal cloth one but I'll go through my archives and see what I can find.
Thanks for starting a BGS thread. I was going to start one but just never got around to it. Its long over due.

Regards,

Gordon
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Old 11-20-2007, 03:20 AM   #6
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Genosse,
The BGS i guess wish to stop their insignia falling into our hands, which is a pain, I have a Combat Jacket, sans Insignia but with the pocket!, the BGS normally just cut the damn flap right off! .


This practice maybe finishing as now BGS stuff is not so sans Insignia as before.. .
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VPpat View Post
I was hoping someone could help with dating BGS uniforms and insignia. Maybe we could start by posting the major changes in uniforms and the years the changes took effect.
VPpat's question really does not seem to have been answered in this thread.

A breakdown of the standard BGS Dienstanzüge for the first ten years [1951-1961]. This information is based on photographic evidence [as it is hard to find adoption dates for BGS uniforms]:

1951 to 1953 - Rundbundbluse mit Keilhose - this is the two-pocket tunic with Wehrmacht-type trousers. Worn with the field cap [or helmet] and belt. This uniform was officially replaced by the four-pocket [the so-called "dark collared"] tunic and trousers on 07 July 1953 [the only "official" date I have found]. Images show the two-pocket tunic and trousers being worn as late as 1955 [worn in conjuction with the four-pocket tunic]. The BGS arm patch is worn on this jacket [without the arc of course] on the left sleeve. NO Kragenspiegel are worn.

This image was posted by Klaus1989 which shows the two-pocket tunic [so the image is circa 1951-1955]:



1953 to 1957 - Dienstrock - the four-pocket tunic [with dark collar] is officially adopted on 07 July 1953. It does not start to appear in service until 1954. It is worn with the field cap or peaked cap [one source indicates the peaked cap was adopted for wear in 1954] or helmet and belt. When this tunic is adopted it is worn with the BGS arm patch on the left sleeve [without the arc or course] and WITHOUT Kragenspiegel. A matching Arbeitsanzug appears to have been adopted at the same time that is made of lighter weight fabric [later in moleskin] without the dark collar.

circa 1957 to 1973 - Photographic evidence indicates that sometime in 1957 the Kragenspiegel are adopted and begin appearing on uniforms. Photographs show BGS Jäger wearing the four-pocket tunic with the Kragenspiegel and without throughout 1957. According to one BGS history source the dark-collar is officially deleted from the four-pocket tunic in 1973.

Hope this helps answer the question. I will post images soon to "detail" the history of the service uniform as well as the different camouflage uniforms and their service history.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:42 PM   #8
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sgtmonroe,
Well-researched! I must say it little more complicated though...

There are two models of Dienstrock. The first one is rough wool like Rundbundbluse made of (which is similar to WW2 wool) and has no turnback cuffs. This was version introduced in 1953. The second model is finer weave wool/polyester blend with turnback cuffs. Not sure of introduction but they first appear in photos from around 1963 and are slow to replace former model. I have two dated 1966. There are also lighter weight Sommerdienstrock with and without turnback cuffs. Not sure of introduction date. The BGS-Schriftbogen added to Bundesadler 1970 to make less military. Sommerdienstrock is not an Arbeitsanzug.

I have never heard change to plain collar in 1973. The Dienstrock worn to around 1976 (wear out time). The new green uniforms were the new Polizei uniforms with BGS insignia. I think designed 1974 but introduced 1975-76.

In addition to sumpftarn, green border patrol uniform in same cut issued start around 1961. Both are called Einsatzanzug.

regards
Klaus
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:53 AM   #9
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Klaus,

Great information!!! I cut my personal research and collection off at 1961...so I don't know much about the variations in BGS uniforms after that. So it's great to have someone else fill in the later gaps.

I am confused. You mention a Sommerdienstrock and that it is not an Arbeitsanzug. Are you referring to the note I made about the lightweight version of the 1953 four-pocket tunic? If so, the reason I called the four-pocket lightweight tunic and trousers the Arbeitsanzug is because of BGS-vets usage of the designation. Here is a description of the use of the lightweight four-pocket tunic and trousers from a BGS-vet [he also calls it the Moleskinanzug which appears to be used more as a "slang" term]:

"Arbeitsanzug wurde beim Formal-, Gelände-, Schieß-, und Arbeitsdienst getragen, beim Arbeitsdienst meist mit Schiffchen."

So I just used the term as he does. If you were referring to a totally different uniform item then I apologize for my confusion.

I forgot to add in my original post that the first lightweight Arbeitsanzug, that was issued beginning in 1951, is a simple one-piece coverall with button front. I have not found when it was officially replaced, but more than likely it was in 1953 with the adoption of the new uniforms.
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:23 PM   #10
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Here are some images detailing the Rundbundbluse mit Keilhose:

1951 - Original photograph is captioned: "Auf dem Marktplatz in Glückstadt 1951".



1952 - Original photograph is captioned: "Üben im Gelände".



1953 - Original photograph is captioned: "Einmarsch in Eschwege 1953".



1954 - Photograph is dated 25 November 1954 and shows Grenzjäger participating in field excercises near Regensberg.



1954 - As above image but the date is 27 November 1954 during the same large-scale field exercise near Regensberg. I believe someone had asked about the BGS flare cartridge pouch in another thread - the Grenzjäger on the left is wearing one.



1954 - Original caption reads: "Weihnachtsfeier in Eschwege 1954". The image shows the wearing of the new four-pocket tunic [without Kragenspiegel] in December 1954.



More to come...
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Old 08-30-2009, 03:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgtmonroe View Post
I am confused. You mention a Sommerdienstrock and that it is not an Arbeitsanzug. Are you referring to the note I made about the lightweight version of the 1953 four-pocket tunic? If so, the reason I called the four-pocket lightweight tunic and trousers the Arbeitsanzug is because of BGS-vets usage of the designation. Here is a description of the use of the lightweight four-pocket tunic and trousers from a BGS-vet [he also calls it the Moleskinanzug which appears to be used more as a "slang" term]:

"Arbeitsanzug wurde beim Formal-, Gelände-, Schieß-, und Arbeitsdienst getragen, beim Arbeitsdienst meist mit Schiffchen."

So I just used the term as he does. If you were referring to a totally different uniform item then I apologize for my confusion.
sgtmonroe,
Sommerrock or leichter Rock (I was wrong - no "Dienst") is worn as in your quote according to BGS Taschenbuch but Arbeitsanzug is different. Sommerrock look similar to Dienstrock but lighter fabric. It is worn at same times in warmer months. It required specific order to wear. I think he confuses terms.

The Arbeitsanzug probably mean green cotton jacket with two lower pockets and no breast pockets. There are also trousers with this. It is different from green Einsatzanzug or Sommerdienstrock. Never heard of one piece Kombi except for vehicle crews and pilots.

Man on left in photo 1 and man on left in photo 5 with G1 are wearing Arbeitsanzug:
http://www.beim-alten-bgs.de/Beim_al...enleben_1.html

regards
Klaus

Last edited by Klaus1989; 08-30-2009 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 08-30-2009, 05:46 PM   #12
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Klaus,

I think I now understand where I got confused. The two-pocket [lower] jacket with trousers is designated the Arbeitsanzug.

So this is what you are saying is the Sommeranzug:





This image is of K. Werner wearing the above uniform...which is referred to as an Arbeitsanzug but is actually the Sommeranzug...am I correct?



I have no proof or images of the coverall - it was just relayed to me by a veteran. He may well have had a vehicle crew coverall he used as an Arbeitsanzug.
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Old 12-08-2009, 05:49 AM   #13
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very nice jacket , pants are not easy to find
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:25 PM   #14
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:22 PM   #15
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Hi Redleg,

Sorry to say that jacket is a commercial item. Good quality and apparently made in Germany around 1986. Besides no jacket like this ever existing in BGS (or even BW) service, the other tip off is the pink tone to the red portions of the design.

Ironically, earlier today I stumbled upon a thread about the same jacket I participated in on a different forum. You can see some more details about BGS jackets there.

http://iacmc.forumotion.com/t4469-bg...of-the-pattern

Also, the hat is commercial too. Sturm/Mil-Tec are cranking them out these days, but production goes back to the 1980s by various companies. They all share the same rubberized cloth, which I assume was left over from something intended for BGS service.

Nice G1!

Steve
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