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Restoration Opinion - Sd.Kfz. 11...or Sd.Kfz. 251
Old 01-02-2017, 08:46 PM   #1
harrison987
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Default Restoration Opinion - Sd.Kfz. 11...or Sd.Kfz. 251

Sooooooooooooo...

I have the opportunity to acquire an Sdkfz. 251 project.

As it turn out, the serial number on the chassis, indicates it is NOT a 251...it is an 11.




Like a very late-war 11...only one or two original sexist...BUT...an 11 is not exactly a sexy vehicle by any means...

I already have all the parts to make it a 251...

So...does one acquire it and restore it as a 251...or build it an an 11?

This is what it "should" look like...

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Old 01-02-2017, 09:14 PM   #2
me6_130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrison987 View Post

So...does one acquire it and restore it as a 251...or build it an an 11?

You have made the question the other way round:


So...does one acquire it and restore it as an 11...or build it as a 251?

You cannot restore as a 250 if it was originally an 11


For sure a SdKfz 250 would look nicer...but would your conscience should decide


Carles
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:29 AM   #3
johann mor
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NOT SEXY, how much sexier can it get? No question, its got to be 11.

Jon
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restore
Old 01-03-2017, 02:49 AM   #4
Lennard
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Default restore

To keep it an honest vehicle it must be restored as an 11, otherwise its a fantasty vehicle.
So what is the chassis number ?

cheers lennard
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Old 01-03-2017, 03:13 AM   #5
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If it was built as an Sd.Kfz.11 then that is what it should be restored as, otherwise it is not a restoration but a new build using original parts.

Just my personal opinion.
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Old 01-03-2017, 09:43 AM   #6
harrison987
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Here's the problem...

$$$$ - wise...it would be MORE valuable as a 251.

3 other sdkfz. 11 chassis have been restored as 251's (one is in the USA), and everyone commends the work.

Some high-end collectors are taking a their standard 251 and adding a 75mm...or making a command version, or whatever - equipment that was never on their vehicles to begin with...and no one says "that is not how it came out of the factory".

From an investment side, an 11 would never holed the same value, than that of an amoured vehicle...

arrrrgggg....

Serial # I do not have...but will have it in a couple of weeks.
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Old 01-03-2017, 10:02 AM   #7
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Sorry to say, but "making" a 251 by using a Sd KFZ 11 chassis plus some original armour parts plus lots of repro-stuff is nothing I would call "restoring". Its more a free reconstruction of an 251 (mis-)using some original parts. While the financial value will be higher - because of the original parts - the historic value is quite similar to a converted OT ...

Jens
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Old 01-03-2017, 10:03 AM   #8
harrison987
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asbjoern View Post
Sorry to say, but "making" a 251 by using a Sd KFZ 11 chassis plus some original armour parts plus lots of repro-stuff is nothing I would call "restoring". Its more a free reconstruction of an 251 (mis-)using some original parts. While the financial value will be higher - because of the original parts - the historic value is quite similar to a converted OT ...

Jens
Good point.
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:28 PM   #9
albertcher
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I always find it funny when you compare vehicles... and airplanes. No one badly comments on the Buchons flying arround as Bf109 or the Flugwerk Fw190. Everybody just enjoys the stuff flying.

In the vehicle sector there are always lots of guys counting nuts and bolts... mainly modellers. Whhhhaaaa.... using repro parts. Hell!

When you like to have a 251 right now and you have the parts... then do it. You are not building a 251 out of a M3 Halftrack... that would be wrong i think.
When you think some arguments to the end: It is wrong to paint tactical signs on vehicles when you do not know for sure that they served the very unit. It is forbiden to add camouflage paint when you do not have picture of the vehicle you restore. Not everybody is as lucky as i was finding wartime pics of my motorcycle....

IMO do not pay to much attention what others think about YOUR project.


Regards
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:40 PM   #10
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another good point...

yes, I was actually heavily involved in an Me109 restoration...and involved in a Fw190, Ju87, Ju88, and others.

EVERY flying aircraft is 95% NEW-build...but...once you add an original data plate, it becomes an original.

The FHC Fw190 that was pulled from Russia (and now flying), is almost 95% new. All the aluminum skin was replaced with new, as nothing was usable after 70+ years.

Yet...

It is looked at as "the only original Fw190 that is flying"

I am used to the aircraft community...where almost everything is made new. As you pointed out...ALL Me109's that are flying all are all Buschon conversions - post-war aircraft...with a DB605 added...yet people hail them as "GERMAN" Me109's"...and the price tag matches.
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Old 01-03-2017, 12:42 PM   #11
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Imo it should be restored in what it was originally.
That's preservation of history.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:37 PM   #12
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At the end it is up to you and what you like, as getting a standard tunic void of insignia and building up an SS uniform. Just try to make it reversible, if possible, so a future owner might like to restore it to it's original setting. The more original parts you use, the best.


Carles
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restoring 11
Old 01-04-2017, 05:39 AM   #13
spaltring
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Default restoring 11

i agree with Absjourn,
stay with the 11,
otherwise it will become a fixing puzzle despide you claim to have some Original 251 parts
lot of restorers call themselves restorers but depends historical value,tech correction and using of materials(Original) you can restore and restore
i hear this often like .... yes but maybe it was like this or that .... people tells a lot of crab stay with the 11
its already rare ,and if technicaly its not compleet ,the world of mil bazar is small everyone knows everyone so sooner or later some needed parts might schow up to make it compleet
side standing people might not see the difference maybe but people who are in the feeld of this.. and personaly negative comment everyone can miss
you would have proud if you came up with something Original and rare like this
i would do it this way...
repro is done a lot but brings down vallue of it, thats why i Always makes pictures before between and after restring of items at least you have evidence of its job and its originality
stay based only on war time pictures... best source somethimes
cheers
phil
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Restoration Opinion - Sd.Kfz. 11...or Sd.Kfz. 251
Old 01-04-2017, 09:24 AM   #14
pauke!
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Default Restoration Opinion - Sd.Kfz. 11...or Sd.Kfz. 251

Nice :-)

Björn
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Old 01-04-2017, 01:02 PM   #15
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A lot of advise, do this and do that but do not...

I like original, but I can accept reproduction or fake if you tell the truth and not cheat.

What is the purpose of your collection or your restoration?
How much time do you want to spend before it is running, if that is the aim? Or is it just the collection that is the purpose?

I have a few vehicles of my own and I know a lot of people who are getting older and their vehicles are still in parts or waiting for restoration.
I started one project more than 20 years ago and it is still in parts and to be honest, will it ever be finished? I do not know.

Some friends work a bit too slowly and are constantly looking for original parts that they will probably never find instead of installing a repro or look alike and get the vehicle running and have some fun before they end up in the wheel chair.
Others work a bit too fast and make it running no matter what, then sells it and begin on next project.
Who is the happiest? I do not know.

With my latest projects I have realized that I will have to make a few short cuts to be able to get it running before I am 80 years old, or is it better to have several uncomplete and half restored (but 100 % original) before it is time for me to leave for the rest-home? Yes there will probably be someone happy to find my unique collection, but will I be happy?
Will there be any petrol to buy in 20 years time?

Is the Sdkfz 11 complete or are a lot of parts missing? How much effort will it take to make it complete?
Will it be easier and faster to make it as a 251?
Do you have any pictures that you could share?

My advise is:
Do what you feel most comfortable with, but think it through carefully. You will have to spend both time and money on this project and if you feel that it is not sexy enough you will probably never finish it. And as some one said, if you make it possible to reverse it is no harm done.
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